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Weather Station Hardware => Blitzortung => Topic started by: Ian. on August 10, 2013, 07:48:44 AM
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Hi,
I have built RED and it's in interferance mode as the gain is 10*10, I've set the antenna type and the message is to save to Flash and reboot, how do I do this, is it a matter of connecting to the ST Utility and looking for a particular setting, sorry if its a noddy question, I a novice in these matters.
Thanks
Ian
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Hi,
I have built RED and it's in interferance mode as the gain is 10*10, I've set the antenna type and the message is to save to Flash and reboot, how do I do this, is it a matter of connecting to the ST Utility and looking for a particular setting, sorry if its a noddy question, I a novice in these matters.
Thanks
Ian
. On the controller Screen? Yes, save to flash memory. You don't have to do anything else. You don't have to actually save it, either, you could hit apply, and it will operate with those settings until it is reset. Then it goes back to whatever the default is.
If you save it to the flash memory on the board, it becomes your new setting. When/if the controller reboots or resets it will remember your setting. Otherwise it will restart with the settings that are presently programmed.
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The message to save to falsh is not on the controler (sorry for the confusion) it is on Blitzortung Controller 10.3 software which I have accesed via my iPad, no messages are displayed on the LCD of the controller itself, I have tried pressing and holding teh Blue buttion in the hope of finding a save menu, but to no avail.
Ian
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Hi,
I have built RED and it's in interferance mode as the gain is 10*10, I've set the antenna type and the message is to save to Flash and reboot, how do I do this, is it a matter of connecting to the ST Utility and looking for a particular setting, sorry if its a noddy question, I a novice in these matters.
Thanks
Ian
. On the controller Screen? Yes, save to flash memory. You don't have to do anything else. You don't have to actually save it, either, you could hit apply, and it will operate with those settings until it is reset. Then it goes back to whatever the default is.
If you save it to the flash memory on the board, it becomes your new setting. When/if the controller reboots or resets it will remember your setting. Otherwise it will restart with the settings that are presently programmed.
The message to save to falsh is not on the controler (sorry for the confusion) it is on Blitzortung Controller 10.3 software which I have accesed via my iPad, no messages are displayed on the LCD of the controller itself, I have tried pressing and holding teh Blue buttion in the hope of finding a save menu, but to no avail.
Ian
Yes, I was referring to the tools menu on the system software you view. When in "settings" page, all I do his hit 'apply' to adjust temporarily. And that's all. If I go to tools, save to memory will write it to the memory until it's changed and resaved as something else.
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Hmmm. a thought. Have you updated the firmware to 2.4?
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Hi,
Really apreachiate you help here, on the tools tab, because it had write and not save, I dismissed it, I know it's simple but I don't want to break it to early in its life!, anyway, the amplifiers are now showing the correct antenne -Ferrite rod...., and when I had this on the bench yesterday, the gain went from 10*10 to 1*1 when I made the antenna change, today the gain is 10*10 and in interferance mode, it is set to automatic mode, should this back-off by itself, or should I change to manual mode and adjust the amplifer directly?
cheers
Ian
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Yep 2.4 went in yesterday
Hi,
Really apreachiate you help here, on the tools tab, because it had write and not save, I dismissed it, I know it's simple but I don't want to break it to early in its life!, anyway, the amplifiers are now showing the correct antenne -Ferrite rod...., and when I had this on the bench yesterday, the gain went from 10*10 to 1*1 when I made the antenna change, today the gain is 10*10 and in interferance mode, it is set to automatic mode, should this back-off by itself, or should I change to manual mode and adjust the amplifer directly?
cheers
Ian
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Hi,
Really apreachiate you help here, on the tools tab, because it had write and not save, I dismissed it, I know it's simple but I don't want to break it to early in its life!, anyway, the amplifiers are now showing the correct antenne -Ferrite rod...., and when I had this on the bench yesterday, the gain went from 10*10 to 1*1 when I made the antenna change, today the gain is 10*10 and in interferance mode, it is set to automatic mode, should this back-off by itself, or should I change to manual mode and adjust the amplifer directly?
cheers
Ian
Well, they're not actually doing much controlling from the server, yet, so it wouldn't matter much. Mine remains in Manual right now. If I want to go back to my default settings, I just reset or reboot the controller, and it goes to what was saved in the memory. My defaults, for my location, are saved as 10*10 with a 110mv threshold. Those, and the 'manual mode' settings have been saved to memory, so they're my defaults now. If I get interference, I will usually immediately pull channel gain down first.
The controller itself will take a few seconds to automatically come out of interference mode after pulling gain down, so you have to kind of watch and see if you set it low enough. Takes a bit of experimenting. If you're in automatic mode, you can't do that as quickly since you have to first go into manual.
But I think we have to discover what's causing the interference mode. Is it noise in the area, or close storms? So the only way I know right now is to watch the strike pages on Blitzortung for close storms, or local weather radar, and see which channel (a or b, since they should be directional) might be the one to adjust. If it's not storms, but is an external environmental noise, it helps to at least determine which direction the interference is coming from by adjusting channels separately.
Ain't this Fun :lol:
Likely, if storms are within 250 miles (what'd that be in Kilometers? 400?) 10*10 at 110mv will trigger interference mode for me. At least once in awhile.
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The unit defaults to 10x10 and automatic when you first power up a new system. Automatic mode does automatic settings from the server and is not now working. You must change to manual mode and save the setting, then select your gains on the web interface. Save those too or you will go back to 10x10 on the first reboot. Do not enable and use the pot on that amp board.
The unit has no way to detect what antennas you are using. This must be set manually in the web interface. The antenna type gets sent to the server.
Check the user data page at Blitzortung.org to see some of the info sent to the server.
Don
Hi,
Really apreachiate you help here, on the tools tab, because it had write and not save, I dismissed it, I know it's simple but I don't want to break it to early in its life!, anyway, the amplifiers are now showing the correct antenne -Ferrite rod...., and when I had this on the bench yesterday, the gain went from 10*10 to 1*1 when I made the antenna change, today the gain is 10*10 and in interferance mode, it is set to automatic mode, should this back-off by itself, or should I change to manual mode and adjust the amplifer directly?
cheers
Ian
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Do not enable and use the pot on that amp board.
What Don is saying, no check mark in "use potentiometer"
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Thanks guys, your help is invaluable, Update:
The A Channel (Red Trace)is going nuts, redicing to 2*10 brings it in band
The B Channel (Green Trace) is set to 10*10 and working fine
The controller is out of interferance mode so all seems good, any idea why the gains have to be so different, the antenna is high in my loft but I do have comuters and stuff in the room below, I would have thought it would have affected them simerlarly, just a thought.
Thanks to all
Ian
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On both of my systems (6.8USB "Green") and RED, I have local interference(s) that are N-S of me. I have not been able to identify the source despite numerous attempts. (Field meters, etc.)
Right now I am running much higher E-W gain than N-S. My E-W antenna amp is set to 16x2(x40) but I have to keep N-S (channel 1) to 5x2(x40).
I find that the interfering noise is so directional that I can crank up the gain on the other antenna amp quite a bit.
I also use different trigger threshold settings. I run the trigger thresholds somewhat higher than default, ~200-240mV range seems to work the best for my situation. I look for the peak amplitude on the "oscilloscope" during interference mode and set the trigger threshold to a level just above this amplitude for just the offending noise channel. Then the noise doesn't trigger interference mode. These interference sources vary sometimes, so I have to tweak the values from time-to-time.
I don't know if the new remote auto gain will work per channel or adjust both to the same value. We'll have to see how it works when the "throw the switch"..
Greg H.
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Really helpful information, I thought it might just be me
thanks
Ian
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On both of my systems (6.8USB "Green") and RED, I have local interference(s) that are N-S of me. I have not been able to identify the source despite numerous attempts. (Field meters, etc.)
Right now I am running much higher E-W gain than N-S. My E-W antenna amp is set to 16x2(x40) but I have to keep N-S (channel 1) to 5x2(x40).
I find that the interfering noise is so directional that I can crank up the gain on the other antenna amp quite a bit.
I also use different trigger threshold settings. I run the trigger thresholds somewhat higher than default, ~200-240mV range seems to work the best for my situation. I look for the peak amplitude on the "oscilloscope" during interference mode and set the trigger threshold to a level just above this amplitude for just the offending noise channel. Then the noise doesn't trigger interference mode. These interference sources vary sometimes, so I have to tweak the values from time-to-time.
I don't know if the new remote auto gain will work per channel or adjust both to the same value. We'll have to see how it works when the "throw the switch"..
Greg H.
Well, it's probably not coming from the cemetery a mile or so north of you. (Or maybe you've actually built a Spook Detector, and you're gonna get really rich.) You do have St Josephs Medical facility more or less south. Lotsa MRI's and other medical stuff. Can play hell with stuff under right conditions,... But I betcha more'n likely there's a defective transformer or insulator on those power lines running behind you. Take an am portable, set er about 530-700, or around 1200 off station, and walk the power lines with earphones. You'll find it. Probably within a couple of poles north or south.
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On both of my systems (6.8USB "Green") and RED, I have local interference(s) that are N-S of me. I have not been able to identify the source despite numerous attempts. (Field meters, etc.)
Right now I am running much higher E-W gain than N-S. My E-W antenna amp is set to 16x2(x40) but I have to keep N-S (channel 1) to 5x2(x40).
I find that the interfering noise is so directional that I can crank up the gain on the other antenna amp quite a bit.
I also use different trigger threshold settings. I run the trigger thresholds somewhat higher than default, ~200-240mV range seems to work the best for my situation. I look for the peak amplitude on the "oscilloscope" during interference mode and set the trigger threshold to a level just above this amplitude for just the offending noise channel. Then the noise doesn't trigger interference mode. These interference sources vary sometimes, so I have to tweak the values from time-to-time.
I don't know if the new remote auto gain will work per channel or adjust both to the same value. We'll have to see how it works when the "throw the switch"..
Greg H.
Well, it's probably not coming from the cemetery a mile or so north of you. (Or maybe you've actually built a Spook Detector, and you're gonna get really rich.) You do have St Josephs Medical facility more or less south. Lotsa MRI's and other medical stuff. Can play hell with stuff under right conditions,... But I betcha more'n likely there's a defective transformer or insulator on those power lines running behind you. Take an am portable, set er about 530-700, or around 1200 off station, and walk the power lines with earphones. You'll find it. Probably within a couple of poles north or south.
I have had some suspicions about the hospital's MRI to tell you the truth. My house faces west on a N-S street. The power lines are directly behind me. I know that there is a significant magnetic field from these power lines, but it is East of the house. I think that this might be the residual noise, not the "special" noise that crops up from time to time. That is definitely the N-S orientation from both the ferrites on the USB6.8 and the RED big loops. It could be the power lines up or down the block a bit, true.
I have a "Cornet Micro" RF/LF ED78s meter. The RF starts at 100MHz, but the Gauss meter ranges from 50-10KHz or 50-1KHz depending on the range. I have tried the AM radio, but not recently. I have a multi-band receiver that includes LF that I can use. I'll give your suggestion a try. If I can come up with something, I understand that the utility company (in my case DTE Energy) has radio direction finding equipment. I suppose that I can claim "radio interference" because that is what it really is. I am just using a really, really low frequency radio...
Greg H.
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Another thought, Greg...
Have you checked these thoughts?
Do you have a power bar with a neon light indicator (Not Led) anywhere near your antenna, cable to the amp, or the cat 5 to the amp?
Do you have any fluorescent lighting?
Where is your home power panel? and do you have a defective ckt bkr???
Do you have a solar controlled variable brightness exterior light near the antenna?
Where is your garage door opener receiver, door button, or entrance key code box?
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Another thought, Greg...
Have you checked these thoughts?
Do you have a power bar with a neon light indicator (Not Led) anywhere near your antenna, cable to the amp, or the cat 5 to the amp?
Do you have any fluorescent lighting?
Where is your home power panel? and do you have a defective ckt bkr???
Do you have a solar controlled variable brightness exterior light near the antenna?
Where is your garage door opener receiver, door button, or entrance key code box?
I did shut off all breakers once (when using the 6.8USB) except the computer room.
The breaker panel is in the basement. None are warm and all have been cycled recently.
I'll look for any Neon bulbs. There are some in basement UPSs but they are some distance away.
No solar panel. There is a motion sensor light control for the outside garage lights. I'll try shutting that off and see if it makes any difference.
Garage door opener receiver is built into the opener. I can unplug that as well. The key code box is wireless. It only transmits when activated.
Greg H.
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Aquarium or similar with a heater?
Mercury or Sodium Security light?
Power substation nearby?
Video Game console?
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Neighbors directly to the North have a swimming pool. There is a gas-fired heater and filter pumps. I have taken the Coronet meter out there during the interference and it didn't show that it was the culprit on the Gauss scale.
No sodium/mercury lamps nearby.
Neighbor across the street to the West has a large aquarium.
I get a strange peak in Gauss just in the street in front of the neighbor to the North. It goes down when I go back up on the sidewalk. I found that the LF/Aircraft band radio doesn't have AM band. I'll have to get a cheap portable.
No substations close by either.
I was able to improve the situation by putting the grounding jumper on the 6.8USB (Green) amp board. That board has differential input op-amps. I suspected high common-mode and the improvement seems to bear this out. System RED went to a single ended amp (the PGAs). I am going to try reducing the old detector's amp input Z to 2.2K like the default RED board. (I paralleled the inputs with 330 Ohm resistors for the loop antennas on the RED amp). I have 2.2K resistors coming from Mouser.
It does seem that I am getting different noise on RED on the south side of the house (in garage) vs. 6.8USB on the north side. The noise sources might be closer than I think. The wife's vacuum cleaner will do it, and her new "Ion" hair dryer will drive the noise up as well. Those are known and explainable, but it could be something like this from close by not in my house.
The steady state "noise floor" doesn't bother me as much as these random high noise levels. They are maddeningly infrequent and often happen when I am not prepared to go hunting.
Keep the ideas coming...
Greg H.
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Neighbors directly to the North have a swimming pool. There is a gas-fired heater and filter pumps. I have taken the Coronet meter out there during the interference and it didn't show that it was the culprit on the Gauss scale.
No sodium/mercury lamps nearby.
Neighbor across the street to the West has a large aquarium.
I get a strange peak in Gauss just in the street in front of the neighbor to the North. It goes down when I go back up on the sidewalk. I found that the LF/Aircraft band radio doesn't have AM band. I'll have to get a cheap portable.
No substations close by either.
I was able to improve the situation by putting the grounding jumper on the 6.8USB (Green) amp board. That board has differential input op-amps. I suspected high common-mode and the improvement seems to bear this out. System RED went to a single ended amp (the PGAs). I am going to try reducing the old detector's amp input Z to 2.2K like the default RED board. (I paralleled the inputs with 330 Ohm resistors for the loop antennas on the RED amp). I have 2.2K resistors coming from Mouser.
It does seem that I am getting different noise on RED on the south side of the house (in garage) vs. 6.8USB on the north side. The noise sources might be closer than I think. The wife's vacuum cleaner will do it, and her new "Ion" hair dryer will drive the noise up as well. Those are known and explainable, but it could be something like this from close by not in my house.
The steady state "noise floor" doesn't bother me as much as these random high noise levels. They are maddeningly infrequent and often happen when I am not prepared to go hunting.
Keep the ideas coming...
Greg H.
Thanks for the tip on the AM radio. I should have tried that a long time ago. I bought an AM/FM Sony radio for Walgreens for $13 and change. (not bad!)
Not an hour later I get the worst noise I have had in weeks putting both systems into the dreaded "interference mode".
This time it was pegging both VU meters on the Linux box sound card monitoring the "green" detector. RED was also in interference mode even down to pretty low gains.
After about an hour or two, it suddenly it stops and drops to the normal relatively quiet level. I did notice the VU went down 2-3dB just before the big dropoff. I just went outside and the radio noise sounds about the same as when the interference mode was happening, even though the interference mode stopped! It was as if someone literally "flipped a switch".
I might call DTE Energy anyways and see if they can find something. The neighbor behind me said that he saw a light coming from the pole the other night. (orange) That sounds ominous...
Greg H.
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Thanks for the tip on the AM radio. I should have tried that a long time ago. I bought an AM/FM Sony radio for Walgreens for $13 and change. (not bad!)
You're welcome. I must have traced down a hundred interference problems during my career using that simple device. #-o
I might call DTE Energy anyways and see if they can find something. The neighbor behind me said that he saw a light coming from the pole the other night. (orange) That sounds ominous...
Greg H.
Yep... xformer or insulator, kite string, or something weird. I would have bet on it... let me know! (or even deceased wildlife)
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Greg,
Find yourself a ham operator and see if he/she knows of anyone who may have a hand-held directional "Yagi" style of antenna for 2-meters used for Fox Hunting (hidden ham transmitters, that is). Quite often power line connections and/or transformers will have bad connections which can cause internal or external arcing that cannot be seen by eye but can be detected by using a directional antenna. While the 2-meter yagi is designed to cover the 144MHz ham band it can also be used to find RF interference caused by bad power line connections.
However, since your interference seems to be cyclic, it most likely is caused by something that is being switched on and off periodically and not power line generated noise itself.