Topic: StartWatch 0.6.0 Release Candidate 2

[Mark / Ohio]

1) I'm not sure why WL is not minimizing for you. I did some tests here and it is minimizing fine. I tried it with and without the bulletin mode option, and I tried it with StartWatch starting the program and also with WL already running when I run StartWatch. In all cases WL minimized. What version of WL are you running? Could you send me a screenshot of the program options page in startWatch for WeatherLink?....
Steve

On the previous version of StartWatch I tried different combinations (ie bulletin on/off when closed, full screen when closed etc.) with WeatherLink like that try to pinpoint a setting which caused it to work or fail with no joy.  I wondered if it might end up being Windows quirk in combination with something in WeatherLink that was causing it.  

I'm running WeatherLink Version 5.7a Release 05/12/2006.  Here's the screen shot:



Just noticed you misspelled Virtual in the when to start section.  

[tinplate]

Scratch the new version in a half hour. I want to do more testing on a fix of the VWS not closing. Will post new version thursday morning.

Steve

[tinplate]

Released v. 0.6.4 of StartWatch
http://www.softwx.com/windows/startwatch.html

Fixed a bug in detecting programs that exceed max memory setting.
Made some improvements to program minimizing and program closing.

It seems that StartWatch is getting near the point of a stable release.

There may still be some program minimization and closing issues because the programs themselves can undo or ignore StartWatch's request to minimize, and ditto for closing. But in testing, it's working in most situations. I ended up having to add some special code to handle VWS and its interesting way of managing its many windows (the bulk of which are hidden from view).

Steve

[W3DRM]

Installed 0.6.4.38 RC2.

Observations:

(1) StartWatch will not automatically minimize any processes. Went through the process twice with same results. I am attempting to get VPLive and VirtualVP to minimize. So far, no luck.  VWS is set to start hidden and it does that okay.

(2) When shutting down StartWatch and letting it then shut down all monitored processes, I get a memory leak error message after which all but VWS shuts down, as in earlier releases.

(3) Enabled CPU Hog detection for all three processes (VirtualVP, VPLive, & VWS).

(4) Enabled Leak Protection as follows: VirtualVP = 5MB, VPLive = 6MB, VWS = 75MB.

Will watch these settings overnight and let you know what happens.

[Dragonfly]

Minimizing just fine for me AFTER status goes from Starting to running. Found however that any monitoring set to less than 30 sec. for LAN applications will crash. For example VPLive using TCP port linked to VirtualVP on another PC.

[Dragonfly]

Just noticed you misspelled Virtual in the when to start section.  

AhhHumm!!!   Don't see it in mine???

[tinplate]

StartWatch does two things to minimize a program. First, it sets the minimize flag in the windows call to start the program. Unfortunately most applications override this and do their own thing once they start. So, I added a second attempt at minimizing. StartWatch also sends the program's main window a minimize message 4 seconds after the program is detected to be processing its message queue. Unfortunately, some programs have lengthy and complicated startup procedures. They may initially throw up a splash screen and only create their "real" main window some time after that. So StartWatch may end up sending the message to some precursor window and not the real one (which might not have even been created yet). Or the program, after initializing a while, may read its last window state out of the registry or an ini file and reset the window to that state, undoing all StartWatch's attempts to minimize it. This is why you really should use the program's own minimize after start settings if it has one. That will be the most reliable. StartWatch's minimize should work on programs that don't have lengthy initializations, and those that don't fiddle with their windows at startup. I'm hesitant to extend StartWatch's attempts to force minimizaton on recalcitrant programs because it runs the risk of interfering with human activity.

The report that minimize didn't work at all is somewhat baffling.  I spent about 6 hours yesterday and today fiddling with that and testing it. I know for a fact (because I did it a whole bunch of times) that on my system minimizing was working for weatherLink, VirtualVP, the Hanger test program, and Notepad. It doesn't work with VWS (and likely never will)  because of a very long initialization involving several windows.

Steve

[Dragonfly]

Minimizing just fine here also on my XP Home and W2K PC

[W3DRM]

Steve,

Since I am currently only using StartWatch with VirtualVP, VPLive and VWS, I don't know what will happen with other software. However, as you suggested, I have done the following with the above routines:

VirtualVP - Set up internally to minimize itself at startup and not via  StartWatch.
RESULTS: it DOES NOT minimize after starting.

VWS - Set up internally to start hidden.
RESULTS: it DOES start hidden in the tray.

VPLive - Set up within StartWatch to minimize after startup.
RESULTS: it DOES NOT minimize after starting.

So, I too am baffled as to why only VWS seems to be doing what it is supposed to do at startup. I can send you, via email, screen shots of each setup. Just let me know.

Now that StartWatch has been running for several hours, I see my original Leak protection values for both VirtualVP and VPLive were set too low so I was getting false alerts. I've increased them to 6 & 7MB respectively and they seem to be running fine now.

Thanks for all the work you are doing on this package. I agree it is very close to being stable.

[Mark / Ohio]

StartWatch 0.6.4.38 RC2 running just under 9 hrs.

Observations:

(1) Minimization..

(a) WeatherLink will minimize everytime if I do not select the activate bulletin mode on startup option.  This is a change from the previous version where it would not minimize in any configuration.  

(b) I think I previously mentioned it but the latest version Virtual VP only minimizes for me using the option in StartWatch.  The internal setting has no effect.  However previous versions of Virtual VP would minimize properly.

(c) VP Live is minimized by StartWatch. Image Salsa and VWS minimize through settings internal to them correctly.


(2) VWS Shutdown..

The first time I closed Startwatch and allowed it to close opened programs, all programs shutdown including VWS.  On repeated testing VWS goes into a non-responsive mode where by it is still shown running by task manager but clicking the remaining icon has no effect and it must be killed with task manager.  But as before it will shutdown and restart properly if a fault is detected.

(3) Start Target program shutdown..

I have WeatherLink set to start after VPLive so to allow VP Live access to the WeatherLink data files.  I have VP Live set to start when Virtual VP's ports become active.  During testing if I disconnect Virtual VP which intern causes the port to shutdown which then causes VP Live to shutdown, WeatherLink will not shutdown.  But if I manualy kill Vp Live, WeatherLink will shutdown.  In StartWatch WeatherLink Program settings I do have shut down if target unresponsive and restart when target resumes checked.  I know I could easily enough set WeatherLink to monitor the port like the others but thought this little quirk might be worth mentioning as sooner or later someone else will probably bring it up.

(4) Memory Usage Monitor..

Working well!  I had 50MB for VWS which was getting flagged during the hourly uploads and downloads.  So I bumped it up to 60MB with no flags and and restarts since.  My current settings for reference on my system are as follows:

Virtual VP 6MB
VP Live 6MB
WeatherLink 5MB
VWS 60MB
Image Salsa 60MB

[Mark / Ohio]

Just noticed you misspelled Virtual in the when to start section.  

AhhHumm!!!   Don't see it in mine???

Crap!

Err...uh...I mean..Hmm, it seems to have corrected itself in my copy now.

[Dragonfly]

Just a personal observation.
If you are running the GUIFIXER in Weatherlink that automatically starts the Bulletin when Weatherlink starts. I have found that Weatherlink will not minimize if you also select Bulletin in StartWatch

[Ravenstar]

Ok you guys all talked me into it, gonna d/l the trial and try it. Enough sitting on the sidelines watching

[Mark / Ohio]

Welcome to the StartWatch Beta Testers International Club Ravenstar!

StartWatch 0.6.4.38 RC2 online 21 hours in full monitor mode for all programs.  No additional observations to add, no false or valid alerts shown.  All programs operating properly.  Over and out 22:48 EST.    

[Ravenstar]

I'll gladly toast one with ya Mark

Here's my initial observations.

I have VirtualVP, VPLive, WeatherLink, WeatherDisplay and an unrelated program ChoiceMail starting from StartWatch, everything is set to start two minutes from the previous process. I like things to get settled in and cozy before scheduling another event I did three reboots to test.

VirtualVP started and minimized each time.
VpLive started each time but only minimized once. (I might need the latest version of VpLive)
WeatherLink started and minimized and went into bulliten each time.
WeatherDisplay same.

I guess I'm still not resolved on the memory issue as far as units, in fact I'm confused.

The values displayed in TaskManager are KB. You'd have to divide TaskManager values by 1024 to get the MB value that would be comparable to StartWatch's display. By the way, the bug was me making just that mistake! I was comparing a MB value to a KB value. That's why adding the 3 zeros made it kind of work. But that's fixed in the next version.

Let's take WeatherDisplay since it's mem usage is large.


About 14 meg => 14,000,000 (To make life simple)

In StartWatch it reads:


About 57 meg => 57,000,000

Which one is correct?

I have the leak detection set at according to StartWatch display 20000 meg and I know this can't be right, that interprets to 20,000,000,000 which is 20 gig.


There lies my confusion.

Aside from my little memory confusion issue everything is running like a charm Steve, nice work!

[Mark / Ohio]

Dave,
If you go into task manager, select view, select columns, and add Virtual Memory Size to the monitor list it should show close to what StartWatch does.

I'd probably enter 65-70 MB in the box and see if it gets flagged over 24 hours.

[Ravenstar]

Ok Mark now we're cooking, that makes much more sense. Making my leak detection adjustments as we speak, thanks.

[W3DRM]

Just take whatever you read in the Task Manager VM Memory column and divide it by 1024. That will give you the almost exact reading you will see in StartWatch for the Mem value.

For myself, VWS is still increasing from 19% CPU USage to over 98% every 24 hours. I have StartWatch set to detect CPU Hogging on all monitored processes and so far, at least once a day, VWS gets restarted by StartWatch. I'm running latest version of VWS and Ed hasn't been able to determine why it is doing what it is. At least StartWatch is keeping my system running without my having to restart things manually. All other processes are running fine with no alerts now that I have the values tweaked.

Steve has really put together one of the most useful packages I have ever experienced. Way to go Steve!  

[Ravenstar]

Thanks Don once I was pointed to Virtual memory column all became clear.

But, and I'm not gonna push this issue may take it up with Steve via email support, but the one non weather related process I am starting in StartWatch does not adhere to that rule. I'll try and point out here the descrepency.

Here is task manager virtual memory for a program called ChoiceMail:



As you can see virtual memory is roughly 18.5 meg and I'm not going to dink with the 24 bytes I think the descrepency is enough I don't have to nit pick.

Here is what StartWatch has as mem:


Roughly 3 meg.

As you can see there is quite a differance, even regular memory is three times as high as StartWatchs. But I'll pursue this with Steve later when he has more time to deal with things of this nature being as we're all using StartWatch for weather related apps. But StartWatch covers more than just weather apps, can cover just about any app and I'm sure Steve has that in mind also.

And I do agree Don this app by Steve is extremely uselful and appreciated.

[Mark / Ohio]

1 Day 19hrs 5min running now.  

Showing one alert with Image Salsa locked or hung and restarted.  Chances are that is a false alert but no way to know for sure.  It occurred at the same time as my backup to a secondary USB hardrive was running.  Being this is a 466MHz computer it runs pretty slow with a major operation like that underway.

[Ravenstar]

I had a couple restarts on Weatherlink happened over night but like you say Mark same here, this is not a killer machine entry level Dell so who knows. Running about 24 hours no issues.