Topic: datalooger 6510 - SER or USB?

[Doug_in_Texas]

Are these the same? I don't know if I have a serial port, I do have many USB ports. Problem is that Ambian sells the SER with free virtual weather station but not with the USB. Does it matter? do I need the virtual station?

[dalecoy]

No
Why not look?
Yes
Probably not.

[Doug_in_Texas]

Succinct answers but not very helpful in all. maybe some ellaboration?

so, no these are not the same thing except with different style of way to connect to computer?

Not sure what a serial port is or looks like, I know old computers had them.

why does it matter?

Probably not? thoughts as to why not?

[dalecoy]

Succinct answers but not very helpful in all. maybe some ellaboration?

so, no these are not the same thing except with different style of way to connect to computer?

OK, more detail:
The style is different, the connectors are different, the capabilities are different, the communication protocol is different, and the speed is different.  See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_port
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_port

Not sure what a serial port is or looks like, I know old computers had them.

See the picture in the upper right corner of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_port

why does it matter?

In general, the Davis serial logger seems to have slightly fewer setup and operation problems than the USB logger.  However, if it doesn't have problems, the USB logger is at least as good.  A lot depends on what operating system and what other software you are running.  That's why it matters.

Probably not? thoughts as to why not?

You have described zero details about what you want to do.  You will get WeatherLink "free" with either the serial or USB logger.  WeatherLink is all you need for most basic things that people want to do. 

Since you didn't describe why you need VWS, or what you will do with VWS, I guessed that you probably don't need it. 

So, why do you need VWS?

[4wd]

Newer computers especially laptops might not have a serial port.
You can get a Serial to USB adaptor/connector for less than $10
The USB versdion of the datalogger gave a significat number of users problems with dropped signals from time to time.
This has largely been solved with the latest drivers and adding ferrite chokes to the cables has fixed some more.

If you have a serial port on the computer, maybe get that version.
You will keep a USB port free if nothing else.
If you only have USB you could get the serial version with 'supposed' more stable connection, however you'd need the convertor which might itself give occasional problems. So the USB version is probably just as good if not better in this case.

[Doug_in_Texas]

Thanks so much for the clarification to this newbie. I was 3/4 of way through buying a Pro2Plus and then got to the datalogger and hit a log jam. It is a lot of cash, so want to make sure I get it right.

Sadly, no serial port.

So now I guess I have to decide, go SER and get a a serial to USD converter or go with USB and hope they get the problems fixed.

(Dalecoy, not sure why I think I need the VWS, just that it on Ambiant.com, it comes free with SER version but not with SB, both are same price. I just want to have a nice place on computer to look at the data)

Thanks to all- I am going to have to ponder my choices.

[johnd]

So now I guess I have to decide, go SER and get a a serial to USD converter or go with USB and hope they get the problems fixed.

The USB logger 'problems' are largely fixed in the sense that the origin of the problems is better understood (the logger USB connections are just sensitive to picking up any interference that may be around and so this is less a logger problem than an environment problem) and so the fixes involve eliminating the interference, reducing the pickup of interference and better USB drivers to help correct any incipient dropout problems. But I can't see that there are going to be any further improvements in the short to medium term.

The great majority (90% plus) of non-IP loggers are USB and not serial nowadays and the great majority of USB users experience no dropout problems. But if you want to avoid being among the unlucky few USB users who do still hit the dropout problem then a serial logger plus a good serial-to-USB adapter is a pretty robust solution.

[Garth Bock]

You would be wise to go with the serial DataLogger and get a serial to USB converter. What model of computer is this going to be connected to ? Or is it a laptop ? Anyway the serial DataLogger has proven to be more reliable over time. The Davis WeatherLink software comes with either version of the Datalogger so which either you choose you will end up with it. WeatherLink is a good place to get started in monitoring the weather and once you get comfortable you might want to look at other packages. Virtual Weather Station and Weather Display each have great features. You can download a demo for each of them so you can test drive each one. Cumulus is another excellent package. While it is available fully functional, it is "donation-ware"; that is if you like it and want to use it you make a donation to their cause on their website. If you have any other questions on your road to getting set up....feel free to ask.....

[chief-david]

never had a problem with the serial logger.

I was lucky and was able to exchange the USB for serial a few years ago.

[tomcj2]

 not sure why I think I need the VWS, just that it on Ambiant.com, it comes free with SER version but not with SB, both are same price.

Is the free VWS the Internet Edition?  If so, I would definitely go with the serial version

[mackbig]

The serial and usb both ship with base VWS.   I just clicked on both and saw the "exclusive offer" which has been there as long as I can remember.

You will want internet edition to do anything fun, the upgrade is 79.95 from base, VWS internet is 99.95 by itself, so your free VWS will save you $20 when you get VWS Internet. 

Get the Serial version, in my opinion, more options and it works, you never know one day you might need another serial device, and go buy a serial pci card.

Andrew

[Doug_in_Texas]

I don't think it is the internet version. Not sure what sire the free is on for either one, Ambiant is where I went (much less pricey than Davis direct) and I talked to them - Ambiant that is -  and they are only including the free stuff with the SER - said it wasn't moving well and were giving away software to make it sell. And they confimred the USB version is buggy.

 =D>Thanks to all who have advised. I think I will go with the SER and get a SER to USB connector, hopefully it will be fine, will be running it on Win 7 with a brand new machine.

[Bushman]

I don't think it is the internet version. Not sure what sire the free is on for either one, Ambiant is where I went (much less pricey than Davis direct) and I talked to them - Ambiant that is -  and they are only including the free stuff with the SER - said it wasn't moving well and were giving away software to make it sell. And they confimred the USB version is buggy.

 =D>Thanks to all who have advised. I think I will go with the SER and get a SER to USB connector, hopefully it will be fine, will be running it on Win 7 with a brand new machine.

That is pretty funny.  They say USB is buggy but have to give away software to sell the serial version.

[K4KMG]

Wish this thread was around when I got mine. I got the USB ver and it immediately locked up my comp. (XP) Apparently, once you make your comm selection, the data logger has a unique code written to it that is impossible to change if your comp locks up upon boot. Davis is sending me a new one, but in the meantime, I wait.
Tom

[JOE]

Been running USB for over 2 years without a hiccup.

They do work.

[4wd]

Wish this thread was around when I got mine. I got the USB ver and it immediately locked up my comp. (XP) Apparently, once you make your comm selection, the data logger has a unique code written to it that is impossible to change if your comp locks up upon boot. Davis is sending me a new one, but in the meantime, I wait.
Tom

I've never heard of any such thing.
Do you mean you set something up incorrectly in weatherlink?
If you selected something wrong it can all be reset, you may need to download a tool from Davis website.
There is no longer any particular problem exclusive to the USB logger.
Bear in mind the large number of possible differences in user's computers and operating systems - this is the source of the few problems reported most likely.

[dalecoy]

Wish this thread was around when I got mine. I got the USB ver and it immediately locked up my comp. (XP) Apparently, once you make your comm selection, the data logger has a unique code written to it that is impossible to change if your comp locks up upon boot. Davis is sending me a new one, but in the meantime, I wait.
Tom

I've never heard of any such thing.
Do you mean you set something up incorrectly in weatherlink?
If you selected something wrong it can all be reset, you may need to download a tool from Davis website.

I've not heard of that particular symptom, either.  However, if plugging the USB logger cable into his computer causes the computer to lock up - then it would be really hard to change that by running a tool downloaded from the Davis website.

[Bushman]

Wish this thread was around when I got mine. I got the USB ver and it immediately locked up my comp. (XP) Apparently, once you make your comm selection, the data logger has a unique code written to it that is impossible to change if your comp locks up upon boot. Davis is sending me a new one, but in the meantime, I wait.
Tom

I do not understand the use of this unique code.  Does anyone?

[johnd]

I do recognise this description but I'm not sure technically what causes it, except that it seems to be another glitch associated with the USBXpress 'feature'.

Basically, the driver/logger combination (actually it will almost certainly be driver OR logger but I'm not sure where the fault lies and it could be a setting that gets corruptly written to the logger) gets into a state where connecting the logger loads the USBX driver and somehow causes a PC crash. It's a sort of Catch 22 because you can never get that PC to talk to the logger long enough for the serial switcher utility to run before the PC crashes.

The fix is simply to install WL on a different PC, connect the logger and run the serial switcher utility. Then the logger can be reconnected to the original PC and used in serial mode (or indeed, in the 2 or 3 examples I've seen, in USBX mode because once the original PC and logger are correctly talking to one another for the first time then thereafter the switch between serial and USBX modes seems to work perfectly.)

Edit: I think the code referred to is some sort of USB device identifier. I have seen some documentation somewhere but can't think where - maybe it's in the SiLabs USBX driver documentation?

[dalecoy]

Understand?  No.  However, I have once (2 years ago) seen this exact same symptom with an entirely different device (not Davis).  That device, on one computer, caused the computer to lock up when the device was plugged in - and to be unable to boot if the device was plugged in.  The device was just fine on any other computer I had.  My solution was to throw the device away.  YMMV.

[DaculaWeather]

I have an external drive on my computer at work that will not allow the computer to boot if it's plugged in. Stupid computers. 

[Bushman]

That sound like a boot device order prob.  Check the BIOS

[K4KMG]

The fix is simply to install WL on a different PC, connect the logger and run the serial switcher utility. Then the logger can be reconnected to the original PC and used in serial mode (or indeed, in the 2 or 3 examples I've seen, in USBX mode because once the original PC and logger are correctly talking to one another for the first time then thereafter the switch between serial and USBX modes seems to work perfectly.)

Edit: I think the code referred to is some sort of USB device identifier. I have seen some documentation somewhere but can't think where - maybe it's in the SiLabs USBX driver documentation?

I'll give this a try while I'm waiting for the replacement.
Thanks

[K4KMG]

From the WeatherLink manual:

WeatherLink will create a direct USB connection, assigning the data logger
a unique serial number. See the WeatherLink Online Help for more information.
Note: Once the data logger has been assigned this unique serial number, it cannot be converted
back to emulate a serial port connection within the software. Included with the
WeatherLink software is a utility that allows you to convert a USB data logger from a
direct USB data logger back to a USB data logger that emulates the serial port. To use
this utility, select Convert USB to Virtual Serial in your WeatherLink program group on
the Start menu of your computer (Start>AllPrograms>WeatherLink>Convert USB to Virtual
Serial) and run the utility to convert your data logger. Please contact Davis Technical
Support (“Contacting Davis Technical Support” on page 26) if you have any further
issues.

[johnd]

From the WeatherLink manual:

WeatherLink will create a direct USB connection, assigning the data logger
a unique serial number...

Yes. However I've always understood, maybe wrongly, that to mean that Windows maintains - in the registry/wherever - an ID number for the logger, not that this number is necessarily written back to the logger itself. What would happen if, for example and as is easy to do, you move the same logger to a different PC where it might need a different ID number to be recognised.

So I'm less than convinced that anything is actually written permanently to the logger - I'm not even sure that there is any memory located in the logger's USB interface (as distinct from the logger's main EEPROM memory map) that could hold such a value. I think all that one can say for sure is that the precise USBX processes are not clearly explained anywhere obvious in the Davis documentation, although no doubt someone willing to do so could learn a lot from the SiLabs USBX documentation, and therefore the exact reason for these rare crashes associated with initial set-up of the USBX interface is unclear. But IME provided the user has temporary access to a second PC this crash state is easy to cure.