Author Topic: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.  (Read 17618 times)

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Offline DanS

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Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« on: April 27, 2010, 04:32:44 AM »
I wasn't worried, Dan. I know you are always tinkering and when you have the surge surpressor done please share it with us.
Bob

O.K. Bob (and anyone else that may be interested). Success today in locating the needed components to wrap this project up.



It's just your off-the-shelf telephone line junction box with two jacks. It makes it easy having 2 rows with screws for the connections and the 2 jacks are now in and out (or line side and equipment side). The TVS diodes and MOV (varistors) are packed inside on the bottom. The fuses are up on the top to make it easier to change them if/when needed, just loosen the associated 2 screws and swap the fuse(s) out. The earth ground screw comes out the back of the enclosure. It may be a better design to add a series resistor on each line between the MOV and TVS diode but I left these out because I don't want to add line loss to the already lengthy cable run. Total resistance between in and out for each individual line is an acceptable .2 ohms due to the fuse. I plugged it into my ws-2310 stn. and it's chugging right along and still happy.



The components are rated to kick in (clamp) around 6vdc which is the lowest I could locate. At least it's a lot closer to the dc voltage it's protecting than a telephone surge protector was. I have a 6 foot copper ground rod outside about 10 feet away that it's connected to. Total cost (excluding the existing grounding rod) was around $7(US).
This could also be placed outside where a wired anemometer and/or rain gauge enters the thermo/hygro ISS but you would need to remember to run a ground from there.

Added Note: This design is only intended to dissipate, or drain off, power surges/spikes in the equipment wiring. A direct hit from lightning will go its own course and circuitry such as this will have no effect suppressing it.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 10:00:34 AM by DanS »

Offline port1

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Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 07:44:29 AM »
 :-) Nice job, Dan.  Always fun and way less costly to build them yourself.
 8-)
Henry
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Offline DanS

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Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 07:59:40 AM »
Thanks Henry. Part of the fun is trying to convey to the Thai shop owner what it is you want. I went prepared today with the schematic drawing I made (above). On the back I sketched a house with an anemometer on top with a wire connecting it to a computer inside. I drew a bolt of lightning above. Next to the computer, on the wire, was a box with the ground symbol. In my (extremely) broken Thai I was trying to explain what I was doing and needed to him when he looked at me and said, "yes we have varistors here, what size do you want?" His English was so good. Shocked me. I've been dealing with this guy for years and never knew we could speak to each other. :roll: Anyway he had everything I needed right there. It is fun, like you say.

Offline Wx4U

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Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 09:36:29 AM »
Good component design. I think I might be able to put it together from your instructions.
Ha! I have had the same experience several times overseas...struggling to communicate, then they speak perfect English. Oh well, I guess they sometimes feel sorry for us.
Thanks for the work on the surge protector. It is an item those of us using cable components should have.
Bob
Retired USAF Air Traffic Controller, Davis VP2 Wireless, WLS 5.8.2, LaCrosse 2308, Logitech Pro 9000 (Roof mounted on rotor), CoCoRaSh gauge, KTXARLIN35, Compaq Presario W/Vista

Offline DanS

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Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 10:43:36 AM »
Thanks Bob. I took my UPS telephone suppressor out first to see if it could be modified before building this. It would have been nice to just swap out components for the needed values.  It turned out to be easier to just build a new one. If/when you decide to put one together, don't hesitate to ask if you have questions. That's what we're all here for. :grin:

Dan

Offline Wx4U

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 01:40:47 PM »
Dan
Do you think your surge protector would work between the wind sensor and the thermo-hygro sensor to provide some protection to the thermo-hygro sensor? Could you test it just to insure the wind data flows through the surge protector to the therom-sensor thence to the display?
Thanks, Bob
Retired USAF Air Traffic Controller, Davis VP2 Wireless, WLS 5.8.2, LaCrosse 2308, Logitech Pro 9000 (Roof mounted on rotor), CoCoRaSh gauge, KTXARLIN35, Compaq Presario W/Vista

Offline DanS

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 07:59:53 PM »
Bob, yes, it does pass data in line there as well. Just make sure the fuses are low resistance by checking with an ohmmeter (multimeter) when you're installing them. My test showed that it worked with using the supplied anemometer rj-11 cable only, no extensions. Not sure it will work though if you have the run extended and insert the surge suppressor.
Good luck,
Dan
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 08:06:32 PM by DanS »

Offline Mark / Ohio

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 01:03:21 AM »
.... In my (extremely) broken Thai I was trying to explain what I was doing and needed to him when he looked at me and said, "yes we have varistors here, what size do you want?" His English was so good. Shocked me. I've been dealing with this guy for years and never knew we could speak to each other. :roll: ...

 :lol:  All this time he's been helping you practice Thai but he finally just gave up.

Wonder if that would work on the Serial data line from the Davis VP data logger to the computer? 

My serial cable runs about 25' from my console in the bedroom to the computer in the basement.  Several years ago I lost one serial port on the computer after a close strike but fortunately the data logger itself did come back to life after a power down reset.  I suspect the lightning might have been close enough to induce a voltage on the line that caused the problem.  The serial port was the only thing damaged in the house.
Mark 
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Offline DanS

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 01:30:57 AM »
Mark, this should work fine for your rs-232 application but the TVS diodes and the varistors ratings need to be bumped up a notch to work right with the slightly higher voltage. The TVS diodes could be 15.ke15ca or 1.5ke18ca (15 or 18 clamp voltages) and the varistors v22va2 for near 14 volt clamping. That's a pretty long run and it may help.

Offline DanS

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 09:39:26 PM »
I just grabbed those values with the thought that a standard P.C. power supply is supposed to provide no more than 12vdc and you should try to clamp above but close to that.  
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 07:21:54 AM by DanS »

Offline Wx4U

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2010, 02:23:29 PM »
Dan
Would these fuses from Mouser Electronics work:
 576-37002500410  37002500410  Littelfuse  Fuses 250V IEC SL .250A TR5 
Retired USAF Air Traffic Controller, Davis VP2 Wireless, WLS 5.8.2, LaCrosse 2308, Logitech Pro 9000 (Roof mounted on rotor), CoCoRaSh gauge, KTXARLIN35, Compaq Presario W/Vista

Offline DanS

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2010, 07:57:07 PM »
Sure looks like they would. Anything that will physically fit and has the specifications required (low resistance, amperage, etc.). There are other styles that should work too in a micro-fuse or mini-fuse construction like http://hnc.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008801012330/pdtl/Fuse/1029236255/Fuse.htm . The electronics shop had the ones I used (and your link shows) in stock so I used them.

Dan

Offline Mark / Ohio

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 12:59:16 AM »
Thanks!  I may build one of those when I get a chance.  I've had it running through the phone jacks on a wall mount surge suppressor that the console is plugged into since the strike.  But I have my doubts that would do the trick if I got another close strike like the last one.  I was at work when it happened but dad was here and at first he thought it hit the chimney or antenna tower on the same end of the house.   It was close enough it had him smelling around for smoke and worried for a bit.
Mark 
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Offline DanS

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2010, 01:10:01 AM »
Maybe it would be easier (and save time) for you to modify those suppressors you're using now.?.?.
Possibly swap out / add the components and add a ground? Kind of what I did to my UPS mounted phone protector circuit before I built this.  Just a thought Mark.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 01:12:45 AM by DanS »

Offline Mark / Ohio

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2010, 01:20:22 AM »
That is a thought.  I'm kind of curious as to what protection it has in there now.  If memory serves,  I'm thinking phone line voltage can go up to around 70V for the ringer?
Mark 
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Offline DanS

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2010, 01:22:33 AM »
Yeah it's up there quite a bit higher than rs-232 (I think 80 to 90 VAC ring voltage) so the tele-protector won't do much down in the 12 volt or lower battery range. If your protector is one of the "economy" models like my UPS one was chances are the two outer lines (black/yellow) will pass through with no protection. It's only the two center ones (red/green) may have a couple of MOV's slapped on and a couple of 10 ohm resistors with them. End result, 2 out of the 4 data lines are almost protected when used as a data line protector. :roll:
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 01:42:14 AM by DanS »

Offline wxtech

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2010, 07:24:53 AM »
~~In my (extremely) broken Thai I was trying to explain what I was doing and needed to him when he looked at me and said, "yes we have varistors here, what size do you want?" His English was so good. Shocked me. I've been dealing with this guy for years and never knew we could speak to each other. :roll: Anyway he had everything I needed right there. It is fun, like you say.
When I was there, I took a course in Thai.  Then found out that most who dealt with Americans wanted to speak English.  They wanted to learn from us.  But they also wanted to teach me the basics of Thai. 
I just finished reading "The Wild Blue".  It's a book that I read in 1986.  It's good the second time around.  Some about the bases in Thailand and the people there.
I enjoyed Thailand and would return if possible.
I'm going to build your circuit into a telephone network j box from All electronics, 65 cents.  My house ground is just outside and next to the phone line entry.
Al Washington, Lexington, Ga.,  NWS Coop station=LXTG1, Fischer Porter, SRG, MMTS. 
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Offline DanS

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2010, 07:40:30 AM »
That is something I need to do also and the wife keeps reminding me of it, take some language courses in Thai. It sure would benefit me and the family here. Interesting language.
If you do ever get a chance to return for a visit, it would be nice to meet. I'm sure from what I've seen on here we'd have lot's to gab about. ;)

Offline MikeInTX

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2010, 04:08:33 PM »
I was having a little difficulty locating the parts for this project so I thought someone might like to see where they can be found.
I ordered the following from Allied Electronics at https://www.alliedelec.com/  :

Diode; 134.5 A; 7.13 V (Min.) @ 10 mA; 500 uA @ 6.40 V; 200 A (Max.); DO-201  Allied STK #846-0703  Mfr's Part #1.5KE7.5CA               $0.34

Varistor, Circuit Protection;20V;250A;7500pF;Radial;1000m Ohms;125degC;ZA Series  Allied STK #846-0170  Mfr's Part #V8ZA2P       $0.31

Fuse;Submin/Non-Resettable;Time Lag;0.25A;Dims 8.5x8.5mm;Thermoplastic;Radial  Allied STK #798-0476   Mfr's Part #0034.6609       $0.63

There is $5.00 handling and about $3.00 USPS Standard Mail.

The Duplex Modular Surface Jack boxes can be ordered(or in store) at Frys (www.frys.com) for $2.49 ea.  Item # 2648272.
 If shipped the shipping is $1.99 if you choose economy which is USPS Standard Mail.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 04:01:54 PM by MikeInTX »


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Offline cybog

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2016, 11:56:11 AM »
hi ,,

thank you for shearing this.. & i wont to know my telephone line around 50-70 volt when it ringing so  is this TVS diodes (1.5KE6.8c) clamping low voltage than ringer voltage how is it going to work

Offline DanS

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2016, 04:25:24 PM »
hi ,,

thank you for shearing this.. & i wont to know my telephone line around 50-70 volt when it ringing so  is this TVS diodes (1.5KE6.8c) clamping low voltage than ringer voltage how is it going to work
I'm not clear with your question. Are you making this surge suppressor to use for your home telephone line or your wired weather station? That TVS diode should be fine for your weather station but not with your telephone line.

Offline cybog

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2016, 04:15:04 AM »
Thank you ..for your replay now i understand it..  i have made rj11 telephone surge protector same way but MOV values are different  (10D271k) ..can you tell me best TVS diode for it

Offline DanS

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Re: Surge suppressor for wired PWS.
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2016, 04:17:47 PM »
For a telephone line I believe I remember seeing something in the low/mid 100 volt range, like 1.5ke130ca for example (130 volt clamp).
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 04:33:28 PM by DanS »

 

anything