Author Topic: The Warming Climate  (Read 54450 times)

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Offline WheatonRon

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #75 on: November 02, 2016, 11:59:31 AM »
I find perturbing behavior in the self proclaimed expert on climate change saying others have no clue even making fun by saying they use arguments such as "it was quite cold last week". Yet this same person has mentioned a dozen times how it snowed when growing up and now doesn't. "Proof in this experts mind its warming".

Yes its a hot topic and politicized, especially in the USA but bottom line its all about making money..(Green Money) and keeping billions flowing into nonsense research.

The 97 percent of scientists agreeing global warming is man caused has been completely debunked. 31,000 American scientists alone have signed a petition challenging the climate change narrative and 9,029 of them hold PHD's.

The one guy I believe is NASA atmospheric scientist John L. Casey who revealed solar cycles are largely responsible for warming periods on Earth – not human activity.

Wow! Well stated! Can I vote for you for president?
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Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #76 on: November 02, 2016, 11:59:43 AM »
I never said Im an expert on climate change, I said I have access to first hand data and I can see it. And yes there is a difference between a 30-year period (I will be 30 next yr) and next week.

What strikes me most is how all the conspiracy theorists try to find flaws in evidence and try to look for evidences against the proclaimed facts. Yet very often they totally disregard the credibility of those very proofs they use to disprove the other ones.

What I mean is, for example, after 9/11 there were many people saying this was all done and planned by the U.S. government etc etc. Then there was one guy and he wanted to prove exactly what I mention above. So he created a fake video where he photoshoped some obviously controlled explosions in some of the buildings. He put it on YT and said this was taken by some tourists and immediately it went viral and these conspiracy therists used it as major evidence of their believes. They absolutely didnt question the credibility of that video itself, even though that guy even on purpose made it very easy to spot that there is something weird about it (all the explosions looked the same, if you zoomed in a lot you could see they are pasted in and were not there originally and you could even find the original video from which this one was made, without the explosions, just horizontally flipped). He later on published an article about this, and until then, so many people used it as fundamental proof of their believes.

So in this case, you are saying that it is the government that wants us to believe this etc etc., trying to deny global warming. However, do you have any undeniable proof that this is the case?

In scientific terms this is called "confirmation bias", you can look it up.

Quote
In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #77 on: November 02, 2016, 12:02:17 PM »
And one more thing, you have to distinguish between "global warming" and "global warming caused by humans"

I am not so sure about the latter, but I am sure about the first one and when you say:

Quote
The one guy I believe is NASA atmospheric scientist John L. Casey who revealed solar cycles are largely responsible for warming periods on Earth – not human activity.

Then you are basically agreeing with me, because that is global warming too, it doesn´t matter if it is us or the solar cycles, global warming means temperatures rise. Whether we caused this is a much more difficult question, to which I also dont have an answer and dont necessarily think it is 100% us who caused it.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #78 on: November 02, 2016, 12:50:52 PM »
And one more thing, you have to distinguish between "global warming" and "global warming caused by humans"

I am not so sure about the latter, but I am sure about the first one and when you say:

Quote
The one guy I believe is NASA atmospheric scientist John L. Casey who revealed solar cycles are largely responsible for warming periods on Earth – not human activity.

Then you are basically agreeing with me, because that is global warming too, it doesn´t matter if it is us or the solar cycles, global warming means temperatures rise. Whether we caused this is a much more difficult question, to which I also dont have an answer and dont necessarily think it is 100% us who caused it.

Yes, agree when we warm its do to solar activity.
Warming is actually a good thing I just don't want another ice age anytime soon.

History according to Paleoclimatologists. End of graph is expanded into last 20,000 years but look at block prior 20-100,000 years ago how we spike high and cool. We are in a warmer period now, no argument.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 12:53:06 PM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2016, 01:11:37 PM »
And one more thing, you have to distinguish between "global warming" and "global warming caused by humans"

I am not so sure about the latter, but I am sure about the first one and when you say:

Quote
The one guy I believe is NASA atmospheric scientist John L. Casey who revealed solar cycles are largely responsible for warming periods on Earth – not human activity.

Then you are basically agreeing with me, because that is global warming too, it doesn´t matter if it is us or the solar cycles, global warming means temperatures rise. Whether we caused this is a much more difficult question, to which I also dont have an answer and dont necessarily think it is 100% us who caused it.

Yes, agree when we warm its do to solar activity.
Warming is actually a good thing I just don't want another ice age anytime soon.

History according to Paleoclimatologists. End of graph is expanded into last 20,000 years but look at block prior 20-100,000 years ago how we spike high and cool. We are in a warmer period now, no argument.

I know and I know that in the past there were times when the global average T was higher than now, as well as the CO2 levels, the only problem now is that the changes are happening suspiciously fast and we as humans could not be the cause but rather something that speeds it up and the question is what effects these fast changes are going to have. I have no doubt that the planet is somehow going to deal with it, but what effects it is going to have on us humans is also a question.

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #80 on: November 02, 2016, 01:23:22 PM »
I was expecting something like this :D

Of course that if someone looks at it like "I dont care whats gonna be in 100 yrs, Im not gonna be here", then yes, in such case, any measures taken as prevention in case global warming is caused by humans (because even if we are not sure, it would be too late if we are sure in the future and precaution is always a good thing), can be viewed as undesirable, economically not efficient etc.

I personally do care about what will be in the future and I also believe that even if for example humans are doomed and no matter what, we wont be here in X number of years, then at least we could say we tried.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #81 on: November 02, 2016, 02:57:27 PM »


I personally do care about what will be in the future and I also believe that even if for example humans are doomed and no matter what, we wont be here in X number of years, then at least we could say we tried.

Very true we do only have X number of years especially if we don't get ready. We could go just like the dinosaurs did, it only takes another large meteor impact taking us all out or even super volcano like Yellowstone could destroy half the worlds population. 
Myself and others would rather see billions $$ spent researching how to stop another super meteor impact instead of wasting resources when we have zero control over the suns energy.
Randy

Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #82 on: November 02, 2016, 03:36:23 PM »
Out of those "31,000 scientists" how many actually have any education in climatology?

In 2001 SA tried to verify a random sample of 30 names on the list. They were able to ID 26. 11 said they still agreed, of those 11 only 3 had any education in a relevant field. 6 others said they would not sign it again today, 3 did not even remember signing it, 1 was dead and 5 didn't answer.


Just saying, anyone can spin the "facts" to suit their needs :)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 03:41:32 PM by hankster »

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #83 on: November 02, 2016, 04:33:12 PM »
Look I am not saying you are wrong, likewise you cannot say I am wrong. None of us will ever be able to 100% prove to the other that their point is right. I myself disagree with you, but I completely respect your opinions and I am not saying my opinion is the absolute right one. I just expressed it.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2016, 08:05:53 PM »
good info here on the current global situation (up to and including October, for the year to date..and November is on track to break records as well globally)
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/summary-info/global/201610

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #85 on: November 17, 2016, 08:13:22 PM »
I think that you wont find much agreement here Brian (I tried so many times...) it has been quite cold here for the last week you know... :D

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #86 on: November 17, 2016, 08:19:11 PM »
ah, but the USA is having a very warm November  ;)

Offline Bunty

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2016, 10:46:11 PM »
Out of those "31,000 scientists" how many actually have any education in climatology?

In 2001 SA tried to verify a random sample of 30 names on the list. They were able to ID 26. 11 said they still agreed, of those 11 only 3 had any education in a relevant field. 6 others said they would not sign it again today, 3 did not even remember signing it, 1 was dead and 5 didn't answer.


Just saying, anyone can spin the "facts" to suit their needs :)

It was a very unscientifically done petition: 
https://www.skepticalscience.com/OISM-Petition-Project.htm
http://www.snopes.com/30000-scientists-reject-climate-change/

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Offline WheatonRon

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #88 on: November 17, 2016, 11:22:00 PM »
Out of those "31,000 scientists" how many actually have any education in climatology?

In 2001 SA tried to verify a random sample of 30 names on the list. They were able to ID 26. 11 said they still agreed, of those 11 only 3 had any education in a relevant field. 6 others said they would not sign it again today, 3 did not even remember signing it, 1 was dead and 5 didn't answer.


Just saying, anyone can spin the "facts" to suit their needs :)

It was a very unscientifically done petition: 
https://www.skepticalscience.com/OISM-Petition-Project.htm
http://www.snopes.com/30000-scientists-reject-climate-change/

And your point is.....?
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Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2016, 05:14:12 AM »
It has taken so long to achieve this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/13/trump-looking-at-quickest-way-to-quit-paris-climate-agreement-says-report

I have also tried to be polite on this forum, so I will try not to break the habit and I will not swear... maybe all Im going to say is that if this *** "expert" understands other things as well as he believes he understands global warming then good luck America....

Offline tbrasel

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #90 on: November 18, 2016, 07:51:26 AM »
I hope HE rips the ******* up today!
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Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #91 on: November 18, 2016, 08:35:17 AM »
Well, all I can say it that it is quite sad that the nation that is to a great extent also responsible, is completely ignorant to it. Here in Europe most people think differently and dont care just about their current economical benefit regardless of what the consequences will be. But there really is no point in continuing this conversation.

Offline tbrasel

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #92 on: November 18, 2016, 09:02:52 AM »
Worry about the EU & not the USA! You go your direction & we will go ours.
Best Regards
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Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #93 on: November 18, 2016, 09:10:51 AM »
Yes, very nice approach. So if we decide here that we will blow of a nuclear power plant (located here) you won´t care either right?

Offline AWL

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #94 on: November 18, 2016, 09:12:05 AM »
Well, all I can say it that it is quite sad that the nation that is to a great extent also responsible, is completely ignorant to it. Here in Europe most people think differently and dont care just about their current economical benefit regardless of what the consequences will be. But there really is no point in continuing this conversation.

I agree. This is no longer a good debate when everyone that doesn't agree with someone's opinion is ignorant.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #95 on: November 18, 2016, 12:27:44 PM »
did anyone read the link I posted?

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #96 on: November 18, 2016, 12:42:04 PM »
Yes, and the findings are appalling.  Arctic sea ice is well under the usual coverage for this time of the year. 
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Offline kmahler

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #97 on: November 18, 2016, 12:45:23 PM »
This always gets me in trouble but here goes...

If, "the science is settled" on a topic, why then do the scientist keep getting caught changing the data?

If, "97% of scientist agree", why then do scientists who's studies were used to come up with that number, not agree with the conclusions that Cook published?

If, "An Inconvenient Truth" was really a Truth why is NYC not underwater today?

If, the polar caps are melting at an extraordinary pace, why was an article just published showing there is more polar ice today than in a very long time?

These and many other questions seem to indicate that the science is not settled and the more that climate alarmists yell and scream in our face that we are ignorant for ignoring the science, I just become more deaf to their message.
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Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #98 on: November 18, 2016, 01:01:42 PM »
The problem is exactly what I mentioned in the past - the so-called "confirmation bias"

If you want to believe something, you will always find reasons/evidences for it, even though they might be irrelevant or just a minority. There could be dozens of articles about something and one against it and these people will pick this one and say - this debunks the other ones.

I will give you one example - even on this forum, I remember people said "but it was much warmer already in the past, this is not something unusual". The funny thing is that these same people than also argue that the old stations were not accurate enough and that we only have direct measurements of temperatures and CO2 for about 100 years. The funny thing is that the fact that it was much warmer in the past is also based on the very same data (ice core) which also concluded it has never been rising this fast and that it is related to the GHG emissions.

So if your argument is that these theories of how unusual this is are wrong, then you must also admit that your evidences for the fact this is "normal" are just as suspicious.

Very often I also hear the argument:
"This is because that is what the governments want us to believe."
Well, OK, but I can then say:
"The fact that there is no global warming is what many companies (oil etc.) want us to believe and there is a huge lobby for this to be presented to the public".  - the exact opposite, but just as valid.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #99 on: November 18, 2016, 01:27:35 PM »
some on this thread say that the warming is part of natural cycles, e.g solar  or similar
if that was the case, then we should be cooling down again, as the sun goes into what could be an even deeper minimum than the last one (which resulted in no cooling but could have contributed to the 'hiatus' (which is well and truly broken now, as this year is shaping up to break last years record which broke the records before that which broke the records before that)

 

anything