Topic: Lithium batteries really do make a difference

[gadget_guy]

I've been using lithium batteries on all of my outdoor sensors almost from day one.  If I had any doubt regarding their performance, I got confirmation this week.  I just purchased a UV sensor for my Manassas station.  In my haste to get it operational, I used the alkaline batteries that were packed with the sensor.  I set up the sensor last Sunday and all was well till night time temps started dropping.  Once temps started hovering around 50 degrees communications got flaky.  Wednesday evening I could not re-establish communications with either a WMR100 or WMR200 console.  Both had external antennas, and the WMR100 antenna was mounted outside.  Thursday I put in a pair of lithium batteries and had immediate communication, and it held rock solid for the past 18 hours.  I guess the lithium batteries really do make a difference in colder temps.

[BigOkie]

I've been using lithium batteries on all of my outdoor sensors almost from day one.  If I had any doubt regarding their performance, I got confirmation this week.  I just purchased a UV sensor for my Manassas station.  In my haste to get it operational, I used the alkaline batteries that were packed with the sensor.  I set up the sensor last Sunday and all was well till night time temps started dropping.  Once temps started hovering around 50 degrees communications got flaky.  Wednesday evening I could not re-establish communications with either a WMR100 or WMR200 console.  Both had external antennas, and the WMR100 antenna was mounted outside.  Thursday I put in a pair of lithium batteries and had immediate communication, and it held rock solid for the past 18 hours.  I guess the lithium batteries really do make a difference in colder temps.

Absolutely.  I use nothing but lithiums with my TE923W.  I've had it for a little over two years now and haven't had to change one set of batteries.  Coldest those sensors have seen is about 5 above for 24 hours.

[mackbig]

I dont doubt that lithiums are the best.  But I am thinking you had a bad set of batteries in the ones that shipped with the unit.

I have used nothing but akalines in my 3 outdoor OS sensors for 5 years (another 2 prior with my shack base station).  Never had a lost signal, and get 1.5 to 2 years out of each set.  And I have "real" cold weather.

Again probably a good call going with the lithiums, but I think they really excel below -15 compared to alkaline.

Andrew

[gadget_guy]

Actually, I failed to say that I first replaced the batteries shipped with another set of alkalines (different brand) and had basically the same results.  Seeing that the batteries are the only variable changed, I have to assume the lithiums made the difference.  Oh, and by the way, the outside antenna for the WMR100 was about 10 feet from the UV sensor and still was not communicating at night until I changed batteries.  When the sun warmed up the sensor all was fine with alkalines, but after dark things went sour.

[mackbig]

I figured you would have tried the intermediate step. I still think there should not be any difference running brand new alkalines vs lithiums at the temps you are talking about.

Unfortunatley it sounds like your new UV sensor might have some issues.  I hope its not the case and with Lithiums you run for a while.  But it just doesnt make sense.

Andrew

Actually, I failed to say that I first replaced the batteries shipped with another set of alkalines (different brand) and had basically the same results.  Seeing that the batteries are the only variable changed, I have to assume the lithiums made the difference.  Oh, and by the way, the outside antenna for the WMR100 was about 10 feet from the UV sensor and still was not communicating at night until I changed batteries.  When the sun warmed up the sensor all was fine with alkalines, but after dark things went sour.

[Bushman]

Sumthin' wonky goin' on.  The IR (internal resistance) drop from 20C (room temp) to 50 F is about .1 ohms for a standard alkaline (in this case AA) battery.  NFW should you have had issues with that little of a temp change.

[gadget_guy]

Temps will be even lower tonight.  We'll see how the sensor performs over the next few days.  I guess it is possible both sets of batteries were stale.  I have a WMR80 in the kitchen for use by the family, a WMR200 in the basement which is connected to the weather station PC.  That console has an external antenna mounted on the wood frame of the basement window.  The WMR100's antenna is mounted outside the basement wall.  It is connected to a different PC that I've been using to test WUHU software.  In the daytime everything was fine.  As temps dropped at night, the WMR100 was the first to lose contact with the UV sensor, then the WMR80 some time later at night.  Finally around midnight the WMR200 lost contact.  All other outdoor sensors have lithium batteries and none of the consoles ever lost communications with them.  I've had the lithium batteries in the sensor for almost 24 hours and everything is solid at the moment.  Certainly I could have a weak transmitter in the sensor.  Alas I have no way to measure the output.  I will say that before changing batteries I moved the location of the sensor closer to the antennas.  That did not improve things.  We'll see what happens over the next couple of nights.

[sam2004gp]

Could be a cold or failing solder joint in that sensor.

[Bushman]

DO you have any idea of the amp draw  of the sensor?

[gadget_guy]

I don't know the current draw.  I'm guessing it's pretty small.  It certainly will be easy enough to measure it.  Sam, I'll pull the circuit board and check for bad solder joints.  Thanks for that tip.

[DaculaWeather]

So it's starting to get cold there John?

[dublinrun]

I realize this is an old post, but what brand do you guys use for the extreme cold temps?  I use Energizer Ultimate Lithium 8x, but it does not get very cold here on the coast of NC.  The life of these are excellent (imo) for my WMR968, which is about 2 to 3 years.  I don't do any recording or the other stuff you guys do, though.  Mostly a weather watcher.
dublinrun

[aweatherguy]

I've done comparisons on the discharge behavior of alkaline vs lithium before. Alkaline batteries show a steady drop in voltage from 1.5 down to (for example) 0.8 volts per cell during discharge. Lithium batteries maintain a nearly constant voltage (like around 1.3-1.5v or so) during most of the discharge cycle and then the voltage falls off a cliff at the end. Lithium batteries also deliver more energy than alkaline during a full discharge cycle.

I did not investigate behavior at cold temperatures.

How much of a difference it makes depends on the application. Some well designed devices are not sensitive to voltage and will work fine with alkaline batteries. Other devices may be very sensitive to voltage and these will benefit noticeably from lithium batteries.

I also don't know if the power transmitted by OS sensors is very sensitive to battery voltage.

Well, that's not a lot of help perhaps, but some good background on the topic.

[DanS]

Not sure if this applicable here but may shed some helpful light on the batteries issue.  Up on the right side, in the pink shaded area, he talks about Lithiums being good for sub-freezing temps.  http://michaelbluejay.com/batteries/

[JOE]

From: This link...

Batteries. The secret of portable power in winter is lithium batteries, but not just any lithium batteries. Most rechargeable lithium-ion batteries die in the cold. Fortunately, non-rechargeable Energizer lithium AAs work even when the mercury freezes.

[HopeMaineWx]

Davis said my problem of my Vuew losing connection between the console and suite is either a poor battery shipped with the unit or problem with the solar panels. As soon as the snow clears from the roof I'm headed up with a new lithium battery and battery tester! Only been 3 months since its been installed and the past 2 weeks I have been having issues. Im hoping its just the battery-I would hate to send my Vue away!