Topic: My dream weather station

[Jáchym]

So, yesterday I couldn´t fall asleep and I was wondering what would my dream station look like. And I came up with a few ideas…

So, the major concept would be modularity – i.e. there would not be a fixed set of sensors, console etc. The whole station would primarily consist of some sort of a unifying hub, to which various devices could be connected.
Let´s start with the sensors. There would be a whole range of different sensors and for some parameters even more types. So, for example there would be several rain gauges, from cheap plastic ones, to high-end expensive weight rain gauges. Likewise, there would be several types of temperature sensors, starting with some cheaper, plastic and not so well insulated one, to some very good durable and actively cooled sensor.
In other words, you would be able to buy those sensors that you are interested in and even later on change them, so if for example you could not afford the most expensive one, you could buy the cheaper one and then later on change (or add) just the more expensive one, rather than having to buy an entirely new station.
There would be many different sensors and the biggest advantage would be that they would all be connected to that one single hub, so the output would contain all these values as one single dataset, which could then further be processed in various ways.
I thought about the following sensors:
•   temperature – air, soil
•   humidity – air, soil moisture
•   pressure
•   wind speed/gust
•   wind direction
•   precipitation (optionally heated)
•   snow depth
•   lightning strikes
•   emissions – CO2, NO2, O3, PM10 etc.
•   solar radiation
•   UV
•   sunshine duration
•   seismogram
•   evapotranspiration
•   webcam
Now as I said, you could basically combine them in any combination, or even have several at various locations. The great thing about it is the fact it would all be one dataset, even the webcam image could then be easily paired with the rest of the data.
For all those sensors it would be possible to either have them connected by a cable or wirelessly, and likewise, powered by either a battery or solar-powered.
Now that is the first part – the input. And now for the output.
That would more or less be the same concept. There would not be any console, you would be able to attach various modules to that hub, that could send the information using various communication channels.
So, for example there could be obviously a wi-fi module, which would immediately stream the data to your own server, to your NAS, to cloud services, weather networks etc. Then there could be for example a Bluetooth transmitter, which could stream it around your house and I can imagine there could for example be an app for your smartphone/tablet/monitor/TV and you could simply have a live view of your data, just like a console – put a cheap tablet somewhere in your house.
It would also be possible to attach a module for a memory card to the hub. So all data would be saved to the memory card and probably there could be two cards. One acting as a backup, so for example under normal conditions it would be saved to just one, but in case your internet connection was down, it would automatically start saving data to the other one too, so that you always have the data saved to at least two locations. Or you could use that to for example transfer data to your PC if it was not connected to it 24/7. You would simply take out the card and while you would be transferring it, it would be saving data to the other one and once the other one was back in place, it would copy whatever it recorded while the other card was disconnected.
Then there would be modules that could communicate via the MODBUS port, so you could connect it to various other devices in your house, create conditions and activate things like irrigation, lighting, heating,  etc. This would include some sort of a universal API or XML protocol. The hub would be something similar to computers such as Raspberry Pi, so it could create these.
I know it is a lot, but remember – this is just my “dream”, not something I expect to see in the near future But the best thing is you would be able to gradually invest more and more and get more and more features and have it all integrated and interconnected. Why invest in an expensive console when everyone already has a TV, monitor or a tablet at home. Why buying a completely new station just to get a better sensor that you could not afford or was not available before. Why having separately detectors, webcams and sensors all sending data at different times, via different channels etc.

[Jons WX]

I'm with you, brother. You could start out relatively cheap and gradually throw money at it, as you wish / can afford. 

Your dream is not all that far-fetched, really, in this era where you can go out and buy a connected refrigerator that tells you when you need to go out and buy something (that's my understanding of it anyway).

We have the technology you're looking for; it just needs to be assembled.

[Bushman]

Or contact Vaisala.  They have all of this, pretty much. For an arm and a leg, of course. 

[weatherc]

Additions to Jachym's list 

- Snowdepth measurement
- Windthing with heating or other snow/ice-remover and as option a version without any moving parts whats design optimized also for snowy/icy areas.

[miraculon]

Just FYI, there is the WxTech Dream Machine station here.

Greg H.

[Jáchym]

Additions to Jachym's list 

- Snowdepth measurement
- Windthing with heating or other snow/ice-remover and as option a version without any moving parts whats design optimized also for snowy/icy areas.

I have snow depth

[PaulMy]

Just FYI, there is the WxTech Dream Machine station here.

Greg H.

Thanks Greg, I'd been searching for that thread for nearly an hour and couldn't find it    I knew it was a while ago, but 5 years ago - where has time gone

Paul

[erikmm]

Zigbee or Zwave Plus as communication


A thought, color of Philips Hue showing temperatur...

[Jáchym]

Yes it is absurd, because everything I said already exists, there is nothing that would need to be "discovered".

The problem is the integration. All the above exist separately and the best thing about my dream solution is that you work with one source, one dataset. You dont need any console, Im sure many of you for example have some old tablet or smartphone, which is more less useless, but has a fully functional display, so why not re-use it. Or there are devices that can measure the emissions and even send them to your server, but.... again, first it is not synchronized with the rest of your measurements, but second, it is quite expensive, because you are paying for another wifi transmitter, another chip...

On the other hand maybe this is exactly why no-one has developed such a universal device. Because you could then choose if you want thermometer from manufacturer A, rain gauge from B and use an LCD monitor from manufacturer C to display the data.... obviously they will always try to make proprietary solutions, where you have to buy the whole package from just one company.

OT: this is slightly off topic and take it just as a personal note, but I am a big fan of Google, use it all the time for my calendar, email, documents etc. And meanwhile I really dont like Apple. And I am not one of those "haters" who never even saw the device, just hate it for the sake of it. I actually "had to" use it while at the uni and the more I worked with it the more I hated it. But ok, I fully respect that others might think otherwise. But one thing that I really hate about Apple is how they try to make everything so that you can only use their over-priced products. There are rumors that the next iPhone wont even have the normal 3.5mm audio jack - Im sure everyone will love them for this given many people have expensive headphones and now will either have to buy expensive ones from Apple or use a reduction which will degrade the sound quality.

On the other hand, it is understandable... this is how Apple makes sure it retains its customers, especially given the fact that since Job's death, they didnt really present anything revolutionary and their sales are going down. It is in part also because of their closed platform.

[nincehelser]

I see things going a different direction.

In "Internet of Things" style, individual sensors and/or suites will be able to support themselves on a network, and it's just a matter of pulling it all together with software, either locally or on the cloud.

As for Apple innovating again with replacing the current headphone jack, it's about time.  The jack size has been an obstacle to smaller and thinner devices, and BlueTooth earbuds keep getting better and better.  Why not replace the audio-jack with a more flexible data port?

[Jáchym]

This is something I always found funny... I personally dont have a smartphone, but if I had one, I can guarantee you that I would much more prefer a thicker device, but with a decent battery and connectors that I have accessories for.

I just find it absurd how companies try to race to have the thinnest device - yet there were many public inquiries, which proved that people always prefer a better battery life and a few mm extra thickness. Some are so thin that it is even no longer practical because it is difficult to hold, very fragile (and easily bends...) and it all reminds me of the "megapixel hype" we had a few yrs ago, where all companies competed in whoever has a camera with most megapixels - despite the fact that a mobile phone with 25Mpx will not even come close to the picture quality of a DSLR with just 8Mpx... the only difference willl be the first one will have images that will take up much more space on your HDD.

There is always some sort of marketing trick they try to use to attract customers, about 2 yrs ago it was 3D TVs, something that turned out to be a total disaster and no-one wants. Before that it was camera with most megapixels. And now it is the thinnest smartphone/laptop. Again, I would much rather have a laptop that is a bit heavier, but with all connectors, decent battery and better durability.


Back to the point though, your idea with independent sensors - the IoT style - yes I guess that would work. The idea is the same, just that you would then rely solely on the individial sensors, and you would then need a backup for each and make sure the synchronization is flawless and not interfering with each other.

[Jáchym]

One thing that is going to be a revolution is when they develop real wireless recharging and by that I mean that I come home with a phone in my pocket and as soon as I get close to my flat it starts recharging,  same could then be used for the sensors because remember that for example the WiFi module,  if each sensor was to have its own,  then you could only send data with very long intervals because it drains the battery very quickly

[nincehelser]

I've used smartphones for about as long as they've been available.  I still have some old ones and they're incredibly large, clunky, with not-so-great battery life in comparison with modern smartphones.

Folks are pretty practical about their cell phones.  If it's too fragile or too small to use, they'll get rid of it.  It's not like the manufacturers are forcing thinner phones on us.  People actually want them.

Back to the main subject...

I'm puzzled what you mean by needing a backup, flawless synchronization, and not interfering with each other.  Interference certainly isn't an issue with modern protocols.

[DaleReid]

So far, there is no perfect phone, nor wx station.

I am an amateur and for years the old NiCad batteries took up so much room that the size of the handheld radios was determined by the battery.

Alinco came out with a device that was maybe the size of a pack of cigarettes, which finally did all the functions on two different bands that anyone could ask for, and more.  I never figured out why I'd need to have cross band repeater operation in my hand held.  It had jacks for mics and speaker/headphone, the whole thing.  The odd part was the battery pack was twice to three times the size of the electronics and knobs.

Then along comes better batteries and the functions are about the same but now the whole radio is about the size of an old flip phone.

And while talking of cameras, it is a good design that helps, but the glass out front makes an enormous difference.  Sure, you'll get a good image once in awhile with a plastic lens, but when I went from my D300 to the D800 Nikon, I was all of a sudden looking at photos that I didn't think I could produce.  Soft backgrounds, sharp feathers on birds, all sorts of stuff with the lens that cost almost as much as my first camera.

That the newer phones can do as well as they can (especially the Samsung ones) is nice.  I still want my D800 often but can't carry that everywhere.

Stations now are accurate enough to record almost everything I need to, but siting is a real problem when I have tall trees and a lot of shade around.  Wind speed and direction, along with solar insolation is tough to capture.  And I have yet to see a display that I like.  I do like the old fashion Peet Bro Weather Picture, but not all values show.  The idea of having the data be formatted by a custom program and sent to a web server is fine, but I am not going to look at my phone all the time while reading or watching a television show, I want to glance up and see the data on the wall.

Maybe like my handheld radio the major producers will finally get all the functions packed into a reasonable station and a display that will please more folks.  But I'm getting older and I don't know if I'll see that day.

[DaleReid]

 Oh, Jachym, I forgot to comment on the transfer of recharging energy to portable devices. 

So many people worry about living near high voltage power lines and having cell phones near their heads that to have that much wireless energy in the area might give the manufacturers headaches if someone found out how it works!  I'm not concerned at all, but there are some things that aren't good for us (phones, no big deal.  Power lines, absolutely zilch for worries.  I've been near a local TV station with 100,000 watts real power and lived).

An old science teacher in high school was a radar tech after WWII.  He told some of us more radio interested kids about being on a roof where a rotating surveillance radar was running and they got too close to the painted line on the roof and could feel "something" that was hard to describe every time the dish swept past them.  I don't know if it is a myth or urban legend but I've heard of a chocolate bar melting in a guys pocket but maybe he was just overheated otherwise.  I know a fellow who did airframe maintenance in the service and he tells the story of a bomber needing some touch up paint while the crews were doing other things to the plane, and certain areas were marked Do Not Paint.  So he dutifully used his paper and masking tape to protect the area, but one time the darned tape kept peeling right off and bubbling up.  The reason he found out was the Electronic Counter Measures team was powering up radar jamming signals to the antenna he was trying to mask over and the adhesive absorbed the energy and got goofy.  Fortunately there was not damage to his eyes or other organs.

[nincehelser]

I am an amateur and for years the old NiCad batteries took up so much room that the size of the handheld radios was determined by the battery.

Speaking of batteries.  I have a Basis Peak smartwatch.  Yesterday I got an email from the manufacturer saying they will buy back my watch.  Apparently the they are heating up and burning customers.  They said only 0.2% of customers have complained, but they're taking them ALL back just to be safe.

[Jáchym]

Yes, of course you dont want to have some huge bulky, heavy phone, but likewise, it makes no difference if the phone is 2-3mm thicker and has a battery that will last several hours longer. Just yesterday I read a review for the just released One Plus Three. And they were criticizing exactly this. The last model was thicker, by a few milimeters. Now they made it I think 2mm thinner, but the battery is smaller and the camera on the back is now not flat so it makes this little bump on the back, so it would be much more desirable to actually "fill the remaning space" around the camera with the battery, have it flat and lasting longer.

[vreihen]

I don't know if it is a myth or urban legend but I've heard of a chocolate bar melting in a guys pocket but maybe he was just overheated otherwise.

I used to live near a town with a lot of TV satellite uplinks.  They all seemed to have a lot of green grass to the south of each dish, allegedly to make cleaning up the dead birds every morning easier.....

[Jáchym]

OK, just to add more info:

One Plus 3 (just released model):
Thickness: 7.4 mm (0.29 in)
Battery: Non-removable Li-Ion 3000 mAh battery

One Plus 2 (older model):
Thickness: 9.9 mm (0.39 in)
Battery: Non-removable Li-Ion 3300 mAh battery

And, the problem with the new version is that it is thinner, but it has this little "bump" for the camera, the back is not flat (which it is for the older model) and also take into account that not only is the battery now smaller, but also, the phone obviously has some higher specs and a better CPU etc., which require more power, so even if it stayed the same, it would be discharging faster.

Now you tell me which one you would prefer. One that is 2mm thinner and has a bump on the back or one that has a flat back, lasts longer and weighs 17g (0.59 oz) more....

[vreihen]

Have you checked out Node Red as a home automation system with all kinds of IoT workflows?  At the risk of slowing updates on MeteoTemplate, I'll point out that it is all written in JavaScript and can run on a Raspberry Pi.....

[Jáchym]

The problem with these is that the technology is there, even the protocols to connect it, but there still arent all the sensors that would have the required quality and be easily all connected to this one "hub" (be it physical hub or just a virtual server where the data would be sent).

I would like a page where there would be list of all the sensors, various versions etc. just like I described in my initial post. Again, there are sensors for all this, but they are all independent, they have different interface, different communication protocol etc. And the sensors that are usually part of home automation systems tend to be very basic, not that accurate (not like Davis for example) and usually probably only include the main things like temperature, humidity and precipitation.

And I forgot one Visibility

[nincehelser]

Now you tell me which one you would prefer. One that is 2mm thinner and has a bump on the back or one that has a flat back, lasts longer and weighs 17g (0.59 oz) more....

That's the rub.  People have different preferences and priorities.  The market will decide which is "better".

As for your example, I wouldn't buy based on those specs alone.  Not only is there a general trend towards smaller/thinner, but there's also a trend that newer hardware is either more powerful, more efficient, or perhaps both.  The bigger battery may be of no real consequence.

There are exceptions, of course.  The last smartphone I bought was an iPhone 6+.  At first I didn't think I'd like a larger phone, but once I actually tried a 6+, I saw the advantages of the big screen... I didn't need my reading glasses to use it. 

[Jáchym]

I agree, but I read this many times that everyone was stumbled by the fact they rather make it thinner than longer lasting, I personally have not yet met anyone who would prefer a thinner phone with smaller battery. Of course you want it to be light and thin, but once it gets below certain value, you no longer care. So I think that the majority prefers battery life over weight.

[nincehelser]

I agree, but I read this many times that everyone was stumbled by the fact they rather make it thinner than longer lasting, I personally have not yet met anyone who would prefer a thinner phone with smaller battery. Of course you want it to be light and thin, but once it gets below certain value, you no longer care. So I think that the majority prefers battery life over weight.

I can make the same argument regarding the battery.  Once a device lasts for a certain time acceptable to the consumer, there's not much point in making the battery bigger.

Most people recharge the batteries at night or while in their cars, so if the battery gets them through their day, that's often enough.

If people are serious about having larger batteries, the market will accommodate.  Money talks.

[CW2274]

I don't know if it is a myth or urban legend but I've heard of a chocolate bar melting in a guys pocket but maybe he was just overheated otherwise.

I used to live near a town with a lot of TV satellite uplinks.  They all seemed to have a lot of green grass to the south of each dish, allegedly to make cleaning up the dead birds every morning easier.....

Radar emits microwaves, similar to your microwave oven. The ASR-11 radar I used emits a peak of 25,000 watts and the minimal safe distance when it's operating is 43ft.