Author Topic: The Warming Climate  (Read 17864 times)

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Offline Bushman

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #525 on: June 02, 2017, 11:19:29 AM »
Isn't everything subsidized in one way or another?  As for OK, well the O&G industry  serves up 2.5 Billion (that's a "B") in direct and indirect taxes to the state economy:  it is the largest single contributor.  And there are the billions of capital projects with generate tens of thousands of direct jobs (also taxed) and a couple hundred thousand indirect jobs.

Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #526 on: June 02, 2017, 04:32:22 PM »
You taking info from the Oklahoma State Chamber Research Foundation report? That reports counts as taxes the payments for leased land, income taxes that employees pays, FICA payments, sales taxes on supplies and much more.

If you go by the  NAICS code for O&G related activities it shows that they paid $43.5 million worth of actual corporate income tax in 2013, $44.8 million in 2014 and $4 million in 2015. In 2015 78 percent of the O&G companies filing corporate income tax returns paid no tax

In OK the effective tax rate on oil was just 3.0 percent in FY 2016 compared to 6.4 percent in FY 2012, while the effective rate on natural gas fell to 3.4 percent from 6.1 percent. In TX the rate is 8.3%, in LA it is 13.3%. In neither of those states are companies leaving because of the higher effective tax rate.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #527 on: June 02, 2017, 10:18:16 PM »
Quote
Renwick says a key issue for scientists - and one that's hard to communicate with laypeople - is that yes, the climate is constantly changing, and yes, there are other causes at play, but also that humans are amplifying the process.

"The big thing at the moment is that humanity has put a bunch of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, stuff that took millions of years to pull out of the atmosphere, so we are kind of winding the clock back thousands of times faster than natural changes.

"Normally the natural changes happen at a pace the earth can keep up with. Now we are changing things so fast it will take the oceans thousands of years to react."

...BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM DRINK

Some sceptics will never be convinced - and the scientists say they may be best ignored.

"There are the extreme views where nothing you say makes any difference, and they'll just make up reasons to believe what they want to believe. That's what we find. And it's just pointless arguing with them," Mullan says.

Adds Renwick: "In the first instance, I think we ignore those people, unless we absolutely can't ignore them - like Donald Trump, for example. You start working with the people who you might be able to move."

Wilson points to Australian research that suggests even if sceptics can't be won over on the climate change debate, they can be brought around to helping make the world a better place - in turn, helping reduce carbon emissions.

Offline BigOkie

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #528 on: June 03, 2017, 09:37:52 AM »
You taking info from the Oklahoma State Chamber Research Foundation report? That reports counts as taxes the payments for leased land, income taxes that employees pays, FICA payments, sales taxes on supplies and much more.

If you go by the  NAICS code for O&G related activities it shows that they paid $43.5 million worth of actual corporate income tax in 2013, $44.8 million in 2014 and $4 million in 2015. In 2015 78 percent of the O&G companies filing corporate income tax returns paid no tax

In OK the effective tax rate on oil was just 3.0 percent in FY 2016 compared to 6.4 percent in FY 2012, while the effective rate on natural gas fell to 3.4 percent from 6.1 percent. In TX the rate is 8.3%, in LA it is 13.3%. In neither of those states are companies leaving because of the higher effective tax rate.

And the problem is that our governor thought that slashing income taxes -- especially for those in the highest tax brackets -- would be a good idea.  Now we have an almost 1 billion dollar revenue shortfall...again (second fiscal year in a row) with lawmakers essentially having their heads in the sand on the issue.  There has been a push in Oklahoma for lawmakers to ask O&G companies to pay their fair share.  For all the talk conservatives have about wanting to do away with subsidies like Medicaid and Social Security, when they are subsidizing an entire industry they need to really shut their mouths about it.


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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #529 on: June 19, 2017, 04:49:01 AM »
All I know it was a bad deal to pay billions to our competitors like (China) ( India) who does nothing for years but continues to open new coal fired power plants.
Its all about maybe 1/3 degree C in the long run according to experts if everyone meets the agreement which they already broke.  We are already closing coal fired plants in USA because of low natural gas prices, we don't need to destroy our economy going green. This was the correct decision by the Administration of the USA.
The climates going to change its natural and man isn't going to stop it despite what those on payroll scientist say. We can do what we can and I'm 100% behind green energy but have serious doubts it stopping anything unless we can somehow harness and control the sun energy.
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Offline Bunty

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #530 on: June 19, 2017, 04:31:20 PM »
You taking info from the Oklahoma State Chamber Research Foundation report? That reports counts as taxes the payments for leased land, income taxes that employees pays, FICA payments, sales taxes on supplies and much more.

If you go by the  NAICS code for O&G related activities it shows that they paid $43.5 million worth of actual corporate income tax in 2013, $44.8 million in 2014 and $4 million in 2015. In 2015 78 percent of the O&G companies filing corporate income tax returns paid no tax

In OK the effective tax rate on oil was just 3.0 percent in FY 2016 compared to 6.4 percent in FY 2012, while the effective rate on natural gas fell to 3.4 percent from 6.1 percent. In TX the rate is 8.3%, in LA it is 13.3%. In neither of those states are companies leaving because of the higher effective tax rate.

And the problem is that our governor thought that slashing income taxes -- especially for those in the highest tax brackets -- would be a good idea.  Now we have an almost 1 billion dollar revenue shortfall...again (second fiscal year in a row) with lawmakers essentially having their heads in the sand on the issue.  There has been a push in Oklahoma for lawmakers to ask O&G companies to pay their fair share.  For all the talk conservatives have about wanting to do away with subsidies like Medicaid and Social Security, when they are subsidizing an entire industry they need to really shut their mouths about it.

I will never forgive Gov. Fallin for telling legislators in 2016 that the income tax cuts were necessary so Oklahomans could have more money to spend in their pockets, and then this year she turned around and wanted to reach in everybody's pockets to collect new sales taxes on every kind of service imaginable.  What a two faced governor.  The legislature rejected her tax plan.

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Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #531 on: June 19, 2017, 08:12:15 PM »
Quote
All I know it was a bad deal to pay billions to our competitors like (China) ( India) who does nothing for years but continues to open new coal fired power plants.

really?

http://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china.html

Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #532 on: June 20, 2017, 08:29:42 AM »

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #533 on: June 20, 2017, 11:04:41 AM »

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #534 on: June 20, 2017, 02:04:43 PM »
I visited a wind farm
did not see one dead bird :)

Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #535 on: July 08, 2017, 07:31:15 AM »
Who remembers the 70', the prediction of the BIG Freeze, global cooling alarmism was the flavour of the day, the new ice age was coming, extreme weather events were signs of the man made pollution was blamed as the cause, the alarmists have apparently now done a full 180 and yes they were called "climate experts" back then as well :) 

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #536 on: July 08, 2017, 07:56:24 AM »
OK, fair enough. Now look at the data that was available, the number of stations available, the number of yrs of measurements and most importantly, have a look at the technology and the numerical models used to predict this. Look at the processing power of the computers/calculators used back then to predict this and compare with today, the difference is going to be many orders of magnitude. I hope you will at least agree with me on that, the level of knowledge and technology in the 70s and now is a bit different... If you look at what these models predicted around 2000 for today and compare it with actual situation now, they are spot on.

Offline hankster

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #537 on: July 08, 2017, 08:47:23 AM »

Offline Bushman

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #538 on: July 08, 2017, 01:15:32 PM »
Who remembers the 70', the prediction of the BIG Freeze, global cooling alarmism was the flavour of the day, the new ice age was coming, extreme weather events were signs of the man made pollution was blamed as the cause, the alarmists have apparently now done a full 180 and yes they were called "climate experts" back then as well :)

Yup!!  :)  And here in Western Canada we are breaking all sorts of heat records daily (some of which are over 110 years old!), and the climate change folks are saying - "See:  more proof that human activity is causing this!"  To that I say:  what about a hundred years ago?  Was that also human caused??  Cycles, people; these things go  in cycles.

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #539 on: July 08, 2017, 01:20:55 PM »

  Cycles, people; these things go  in cycles.

Exactly, but you can't get through to those with an agenda. I know one thing, it's nice now here in the USA to be able to look up and not see all those "trails" in the sky everyday.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 01:22:26 PM by DoctorKnow »

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #540 on: July 08, 2017, 02:47:32 PM »
no one said the climate does not go in cycles
re the 100 years ago
you are missing the point
100 years ago there was still the odd outlier in extreme condtions
as there is now
but you have a Y offset now added to those outliers, ie the background warming trend, and so those original outliers (i.e when all the ducks are lined up with the weather pattern to break a record) are getting broken

Offline Bushman

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #541 on: July 08, 2017, 04:16:38 PM »
Cycles.  Like the Barrier reef die-off.  Human caused right?  Then explain the multiple times it has happened before.  Or desertification and regeneration.  Look - I am no  climate denier and am all for things like electric vehicles  and less pollution (although the two don't always go hand-in -hand...) but I kinda lose it when  we  are bombarded by those who either say do nothing and "burn baby burn"  (Rhymes with Drumpf) and those who play Chicken Little every time there is an adverse weather or climate event.  This stuff has been going on for thousands of millennia.  And will do so long after Kim blows up everything.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #542 on: July 08, 2017, 04:33:00 PM »
and again no one has said that the corals have not died off before
the problem currently is the rate of change, nature is having  hard time adapting and catching up

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #543 on: July 08, 2017, 04:48:13 PM »
and again no one has said that the corals have not died off before
the problem currently is the rate of change, nature is having  hard time adapting and catching up

I always missed the "thumbs up" smiley on this forum :D If there was one I would just post it now, thats exactly the problem, not the absolute values, the rate of change.

Analogy: I am 99% sure that if humans had millions of years to colonize Mars, we would over time get used to that environment without any need for any special suits etc. But if I just dropped you there now you probably wouldnt survive for very long...

Offline Mattk

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #544 on: July 08, 2017, 07:37:21 PM »
Well at least sheep have worked out a good use for wind turbines  =D> some very expensive shade that from something producing zero energy during the hottest part of the year


Offline Bushman

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #545 on: July 08, 2017, 08:20:35 PM »
Cool (pun not intended!) picture!!  :)

Offline Bushman

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #546 on: July 08, 2017, 08:23:03 PM »
Recently I've been involved in replacing CFL and regular incandescent (and some std. fluorescent) bulbs in a large building.  I simply cannot believe the speed of payout and the associated reduction in electricity use, regardless of how that power was generated.  Trump could probably meet the USA Paris goals just by mandating LED bulbs. Of course they come at a cost, too.  Like solar panels.

Offline Jáchym

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #547 on: July 08, 2017, 08:31:21 PM »
Regular bulbs were banned here in EU several yrs ago, you now have to use either LEDs or the energy saving ones.

With regards to wind power - wind power is just one type of renewable energy. If you install it in an appropriate location, it will be quite useful. If it is installed at inappropriate, i.e. calm location, then it is not a problem of wind power plants as such, but with the fact whoever decided this was an idiot :D

If you live in a hot, sunny and calm area, then a more appropriate could be eg. solar panels etc. It is also about efficient energy grids and the way this renewable energy is distributed.

But you cannot generalize this and say that wind power is useless. It is only useless if you install it in places where it shouldnt be installed.

Just like building a coal power plant in a place where coal is N/A and then saying that coal powerplants are useless because this fuelless one is not generating anything

Offline Bushman

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #548 on: July 08, 2017, 08:50:12 PM »
Wind is transient.  Ergo, you need storage.  Lead acid batteries.  And guess where they come from?  Wind is fine for supplemntal but I think other than a few places it is a non-starter.

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: The Warming Climate
« Reply #549 on: July 08, 2017, 08:55:22 PM »
I use the LED bulbs. They have dropped the light bill dramatically, and they put out better lighting. Win/Win!