Author Topic: NOAA WEATHER RADIO  (Read 149747 times)

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Offline 44085weather

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #175 on: February 27, 2017, 05:03:44 PM »
Hi,

I'm unable to say which one would use the least resources. I'm using EdCast on an Intel Atom CPU based box, without any issues. This machine runs Windows 7 Pro, with Avast A/V, and Cumulus MX at the same time.

John

Does edcast have a free version?

Offline Maumelle Weather

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #176 on: February 27, 2017, 05:05:52 PM »
Yes, it is free.
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Offline phillipdampier

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #177 on: February 27, 2017, 05:06:16 PM »
#-o Sheesh... we may be getting at cross purposes, here...
We need to decide if we're going to, as a community, do our thing, or feed and hit all various providers. What we do as individuals is ok, and fine...
but as a community, what?

I'm not going to 'chase' feeds everywhere to try to bring 'em into one accessible, non commercial, weather radio oriented site, which will eventually have other Weather Radio focused features, for any of us to grab onto ... and I learned my lesson through WU, thank you. I suspect a few folks working on concepts and features around this scenario (Bob, John, et.al.) feel the same. I personally am NOT going to  transmit multiple streams to multiple places, especially any commercial providers, or promote them with One very general Exception... 

We have a phone app developer "Friend" named Chris, who offered us his IceCast, and commits to expanding to VPS or whatever is required in the future to fill needs. This enables flexibility for each of us, anonymous 'donor' connection,etc, and his only 'gain' is enhancing his phone apps with another bunch of feeds...and costs us nothing.  He approached us.  We didn't have to convince him to change any policies, or create an involved sign-up with restrictions, etc. At first ,I was a bit leery, but became sold on the idea. He's put a lot of time and effort into reclaiming WU's lost sheep... and didn't desire any credit on the site, but I insisted on that.

So, it's decide what the community does, or wants. If we're going multiple focus, I have a domain for sale. Cheap.

And if continuing to promote other alternatives to the original premise of this thread, I'd suggest starting other threads.
Mike

I think you are being excessively sensitive on this. There should be nothing wrong with openly discussing various options and giving people a choice. I intend to support your project and I support Broadcastify as a secondary option as my personal choice. I've already said I will work with anyone and I'm even willing to help financially support whatever model "we" collectively as a group here decide to construct to make our own. I intend to prioritize the NOAAWeatherRadio.org project as my first priority. Broadcastify attracts a different audience than a weather-related website does, so these are not necessarily cross purpose. NOAAWeatheradio.org can go FAR beyond what Broadcastify will offer us and it can represent the needs of the weather enthusiast much better, and I am certain this group will give it FAR more loving care than Weather Underground ever provided its streamers (could you even find the weather radio feeds on Weather Underground's dropdown menu?) But Broadcastify has a massive built-in audience and their feeds are also included in a large number of scanner apps. Getting the radio feed out to the largest possible audience is one of my personal goals, which is why I am willing to do both. I agree with you we are more "tolerated" on Broadcastify than welcomed with open arms, but it's a change in policy worth mentioning.

Having run websites since the early 1990s, I can assure you that the quality of the work that is possible within our group will attract much more attention, respect and support than some of the other options out there. But I'm not afraid or offended by those other options either, and I hope diversity of views and options can co-exist.

Offline 44085weather

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #178 on: February 27, 2017, 05:26:26 PM »
I have RadioFeed from when i used to stream to RadioReference, already on my PC can anyone tell me how i would need to configure it?

Offline W3DRM

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #179 on: February 27, 2017, 05:35:42 PM »
I'm sitting on the sidelines watching this concept of NOAA radio broadcasting evolve and can only think back to how another project started in Europe began with most likely similar ideas and concerns. To be specific, Blitzortung also evolved over many years into the world-wide community it has become today. And, interestingly, the same players along with many new ones are involved in both of them.

Mike (Cutty) has done an incredible job of getting the idea started, as have the many others who have joined the conversation with their ideas and suggestions. Just the volume of posts in this thread should tell all of us that this is one of those exploding ideas.

So, I would simply like to voice my suggestion that everyone keep moving forward and continue to work together to make this yet another great project that all of us can enjoy and participate in. Like Blitzortung that runs on its own without the need of connecting to a computer to function, I would think we would be much better off concentrating on a configuration that also is capable of receiving NOAA radio signals and connecting to a router for broadcast to a central collection point so everyone can access the broadcasts regardless of where they live. The key focus should be to create the simplest and least costly solution that allows those who want to broadcast their local NOAA information to do so more easily. To do that, we would have to collectively identify the necessary equipment so everyone could purchase and assemble it in a similar configuration. Once that basic configuration is agreed to, we could conceivably have enough buying power through a group purchase and thus reduce initial costs dramatically for all.
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Offline 44085weather

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #180 on: February 27, 2017, 05:44:31 PM »
I would think we would be much better off concentrating on a configuration that also is capable of receiving NOAA radio signals and connecting to a router for broadcast to a central collection point so everyone can access the broadcasts regardless of where they live. The key focus should be to create the simplest and least costly solution that allows those who want to broadcast their local NOAA information. To do that, we would have to collectively identify the necessary equipment so everyone could purchase and assemble it in a similar configuration. Once that basic configuration is agreed to, we could conceivably have enough buying power through a group purchase and thus reduce initial costs dramatically for all.

I think this a great idea.

 Also thanks to all those involved in making this happen.

Offline phillipdampier

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #181 on: February 27, 2017, 05:44:46 PM »
Hi,

I'm unable to say which one would use the least resources. I'm using EdCast on an Intel Atom CPU based box, without any issues. This machine runs Windows 7 Pro, with Avast A/V, and Cumulus MX at the same time.

John

I use Edcast here. The only annoying thing about the one linked from Weather Underground was the third party link to a lousy LAME encoder that sounds awful on low bitrate streams (sounds watery/fluttery and reduces intelligibility). I found an alternate version of the LAME DLL that was generally used by international broadcasters streaming at a low bitrate that seems to be much clearer at 16kbps, mono, 22050Hz (mp3). If you use Edcast and don't like the sound quality, try renaming lame_enc.dll in the edcast directory lame_enc.old and download and substitute this version: http://phillipdampier.com/downloads/lame_enc.dll which should take effect after closing and restarting edcast. If it doesn't work well, you can delete it and rename the existing .old file back to .dll. No harm done.

I also found different radios have a lot of quality variability. The one I use is the Midland WR-300 S.A.M.E. Weather Alert All-Hazard Radio and I had to take some steps to disable the alerting functions to keep the sound active at all times with no reset post weather warnings or tests. A lot of feeds I've heard over the years sound terrible because the volume is set too low or too loud, the audio quality of the receiver is limited and poor and some have alert sound bleed-thru (so you hear the siren on the stream). The other mistake for low bitrate streams is setting it for stereo. I believe I found a mono patch cord between the audio out and the soundcard in so both channels were audible and edcast was set for mono.


Offline phillipdampier

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #182 on: February 27, 2017, 05:59:11 PM »
So, I would simply like to voice my suggestion that everyone keep moving forward and continue to work together to make this yet another great project that all of us can enjoy and participate in. Like Blitzortung that runs on its own without the need of connecting to a computer to function, I would think we would be much better off concentrating on a configuration that also is capable of receiving NOAA radio signals and connecting to a router for broadcast to a central collection point so everyone can access the broadcasts regardless of where they live. The key focus should be to create the simplest and least costly solution that allows those who want to broadcast their local NOAA information. To do that, we would have to collectively identify the necessary equipment so everyone could purchase and assemble it in a similar configuration. Once that basic configuration is agreed to, we could conceivably have enough buying power through a group purchase and thus reduce initial costs dramatically for all.

I agree with this, especially to help us grow the number of streams and get better coverage around the country (and especially into places like Canada). I can tell you from experience the best way to manage this is to sell a pre-assembled package option that includes software and a VERY simple configuration procedure with step-by-step instructions, and preferably a link to a YouTube video (people will watch what they won't read).

TV stations group purchase weather radios all the time (I think Midland is a common partner) for giveaways, especially in tornado and hurricane-afflicted states, so some discounts should be accessible. The difference there is they need not be shipped. If we want consistency, then supplying the same hardware and software is a smart idea, even including bundling a weather radio for streaming if needed.

The technical challenge can be hard to overcome for some people without a simple process and I'd be happy to contribute some step-by-step documentation writing.

One thing that I've also noticed is some people just pull the plug on streams because they think nobody listens... until a major weather event hits their area or a long-established stream goes offline. After a decade of doing this, when mine drops (annoying Windows 10 auto reboots post-update most common reason), my phone starts ringing usually within an hour. Having five concurrent human listeners is a very strong number on ordinary weather days. But when a warning is issued, things spike fast. Understanding what to expect can temper outsized expectations and make people feel these streams are worthwhile even when they don't have a lot of listeners during bright, sunny days.

Those in Canada have been reluctant to provide streams because of the pervasive usage caps up there until alternative ISPs made it possible to ditch those. Also, low speed DSL can make it tough to justify sucking your upstream bandwidth when you are stuck with a 3Mbps downstream, 384kbps upstream connection. There are a lot of folks in states like West Virginia where this is a common reality.

At least folks may not realize feeding a 16k stream takes up a minuscule amount of their usage allowance. DSL data caps are more than generous to stream 24/7 and not run into a problem. An HD Netflix movie will usually consume more than a whole month of streaming.

Offline tim273

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #183 on: February 27, 2017, 06:26:03 PM »

Please use the following to get your stream uploading and playing (Broadwave, Icecast, Edcast, etc.). Chris of Crushed Box Software has graciously volunteered to upgrade a server to accommodate us who wish to broadcast.

Change Server IP to: wxradio.dyndns.org
Use Encoder Password: WxRadio2014

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

John

Between Icecast or Broadwave which would you recommend that uses the least resources - network and CPU wise.?

Depends on what you're running.  I tested Icecast on a Raspberry Pi 3 and it was very manageable even with 250 listeners, CPU usage didn't go above 25%.

Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #184 on: February 28, 2017, 07:44:58 AM »
Why don't you guys post that long coding as an attachment?
 


Offline tim273

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #185 on: February 28, 2017, 08:45:37 AM »
Why don't you guys post that long coding as an attachment?

I usually put it in the code block and it at least has a scroll bar so it condenses it down a little.

Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #186 on: February 28, 2017, 10:00:52 AM »
Why don't you guys post that long coding as an attachment?

I usually put it in the code block and it at least has a scroll bar so it condenses it down a little.
Oh, yeah,... I noticed that. That's why I asked the question... "why don't you guys post that long coding as an attachment" ... so I guess the answer is "we just don't want to"...
 


Offline tim273

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #187 on: February 28, 2017, 11:00:41 AM »
Why don't you guys post that long coding as an attachment?

I usually put it in the code block and it at least has a scroll bar so it condenses it down a little.
Oh, yeah,... I noticed that. That's why I asked the question... "why don't you guys post that long coding as an attachment" ... so I guess the answer is "we just don't want to"...

I think it just nice to be able to see it rather than having to click on an attachment.

Offline 92merc

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #188 on: February 28, 2017, 12:39:52 PM »
Tim, does your SMA pigtail go to some sort of antenna then?
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Offline tim273

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #189 on: February 28, 2017, 01:18:35 PM »
Tim, does your SMA pigtail go to some sort of antenna then?

I also got this: https://www.amazon.com/DHT-Electronics-coaxial-adapter-female/dp/B00CVTRGIC and then I run a standard TV coax cable up into my attic.  From there I stripped of 17 1/4 inches of the outer shell and braid so that there's 17 1/4 inches of bare center coax wire.  17 1/4 inches is a 1/4 wave of 162.55 MHz which is my local frequency.  I mounted it upright into my attic and it works great.  Now if you want to be fancy you could build a 1/4 wave ground plane antenna or get a J Pole or something.

J Pole: http://www.jpole-antenna.com/shop/product-category/weather-band/
1/4 wave (you'd have to build that yourself): http://www.diylightanimation.com/wiki/images/0/01/DIY_Quarter_Wave_Antenna.pdf
Another resource for a 1/4 wave ground plane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17MjkpblLpE  this one is for 2M but will work for weather radio, otherwise you could shorten it just a bit.

If you go with one of the above, you'll need one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/DHT-Electronics-coaxial-adapter-female/dp/B00CVQP7CW

Hope that helps,
Tim
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 01:24:12 PM by tim273 »

Offline 92merc

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #190 on: February 28, 2017, 02:23:06 PM »
Thanks.  That should do.  If not, my brother is not only an electrical engineer, but a HAM radio operator as well.  We'll figure it out.
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Offline tim273

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #191 on: February 28, 2017, 02:28:04 PM »
Thanks.  That should do.  If not, my brother is not only an electrical engineer, but a HAM radio operator as well.  We'll figure it out.

I'm a ham radio operator myself, so I've built a few antennas as well.

Offline WxWes

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #192 on: February 28, 2017, 03:19:35 PM »
Hi all,

Wes from weatherUSA, here. Just came across this thread as we've had several requests over the last week to host NOAA Weather Radio feeds after the demise of the WU audio server... also kind of embarrassed that I've never created an account on WXForum until now, ha.

Over the weekend, we opened our Icecast server to public streaming, which can be used by signing up for a free account on our site and filling in your station details:
https://www.weatherusa.net/members/services/radio

That will automatically add you to our Icecast server with a separate password, and include your station on our broadcast list at the below link  (well, in the next few hours since we're in the middle of updating that page). This page has gotten a lot of traffic from search engines over the years but it looks horrible at the present time given that we deleted almost all of the existing links that were there previously. It'll be updated later today with a new, automatically updated list and an audio streaming widget/tool.
http://www.weatherusa.net/radio

Going back through the thread, it looks like you guys have already created some great solutions to replace the WU feeds. We'd like to help wherever possible... our streaming server is on a 100x100 fiber connection, and being Icecast we can relay to additional servers easily if/when demand calls for it. In addition, we want to list ALL NWR feeds out there on our site, not just ones that are streaming to us. If there's some way we can pull/share info with noaaweatherradio.org and display or link to that on our site, I think it's a win for everyone. We'll also accept submissions of existing station stream URLs for listing on the above page which includes direct links to the broadcaster's website, if given.

I understand that some are uncomfortable streaming to a "commercial" provider, especially because we plan to use the feeds in our mobile apps and make them playable on local forecast pages. On the other hand, reliability is important. We have the account requirement because it (1) allows us to contact people in case of an issue with their stream and/or updates to the service, and (2) we generate a random password for each user to protect against abuse - which could be a problem posting a generic streaming password on a public forum. NWR, being in the public domain, means we all can share and re-broadcast streams (Icecast makes that dead simple, too) in case people want to use their own servers but be able to handle the traffic on busy weather days. We're also happy to offer Premium subscriptions to our services for anyone who streams through us.

Just let me know how we can help.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 03:23:56 PM by WxWes »
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Offline tim273

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #193 on: February 28, 2017, 04:13:40 PM »
Hi all,

Wes from weatherUSA, here. Just came across this thread as we've had several requests over the last week to host NOAA Weather Radio feeds after the demise of the WU audio server... also kind of embarrassed that I've never created an account on WXForum until now, ha.

Over the weekend, we opened our Icecast server to public streaming, which can be used by signing up for a free account on our site and filling in your station details:
https://www.weatherusa.net/members/services/radio

That will automatically add you to our Icecast server with a separate password, and include your station on our broadcast list at the below link  (well, in the next few hours since we're in the middle of updating that page). This page has gotten a lot of traffic from search engines over the years but it looks horrible at the present time given that we deleted almost all of the existing links that were there previously. It'll be updated later today with a new, automatically updated list and an audio streaming widget/tool.
http://www.weatherusa.net/radio

Going back through the thread, it looks like you guys have already created some great solutions to replace the WU feeds. We'd like to help wherever possible... our streaming server is on a 100x100 fiber connection, and being Icecast we can relay to additional servers easily if/when demand calls for it. In addition, we want to list ALL NWR feeds out there on our site, not just ones that are streaming to us. If there's some way we can pull/share info with noaaweatherradio.org and display or link to that on our site, I think it's a win for everyone. We'll also accept submissions of existing station stream URLs for listing on the above page which includes direct links to the broadcaster's website, if given.

I understand that some are uncomfortable streaming to a "commercial" provider, especially because we plan to use the feeds in our mobile apps and make them playable on local forecast pages. On the other hand, reliability is important. We have the account requirement because it (1) allows us to contact people in case of an issue with their stream and/or updates to the service, and (2) we generate a random password for each user to protect against abuse - which could be a problem posting a generic streaming password on a public forum. NWR, being in the public domain, means we all can share and re-broadcast streams (Icecast makes that dead simple, too) in case people want to use their own servers but be able to handle the traffic on busy weather days. We're also happy to offer Premium subscriptions to our services for anyone who streams through us.

Just let me know how we can help.

Just a quick question, if I have an Icecast server already, and wanted to have my stream on your side, would you do an Icecast relay or just manually add the stream?

http://icecast.org/docs/icecast-2.4.1/relaying.html

Offline 92merc

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #194 on: February 28, 2017, 04:24:30 PM »
I wish I knew more programming.  I wonder if it would be possible to hack this device and turn an RPI into a receiver and endcoder.

http://www.aiwindustries.com/store/p9/Raspberry_Pi_B_%2F2_NWR_Receiver%2FSAME_Decoder.html
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Offline tim273

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #195 on: February 28, 2017, 04:33:25 PM »
I wish I knew more programming.  I wonder if it would be possible to hack this device and turn an RPI into a receiver and endcoder.

http://www.aiwindustries.com/store/p9/Raspberry_Pi_B_%2F2_NWR_Receiver%2FSAME_Decoder.html

Maybe something like this?

https://github.com/cuppa-joe/dsame

Here's the source: http://www.rtl-sdr.com/new-eas-same-weather-alert-decoder/
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 04:38:56 PM by tim273 »

Offline 92merc

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #196 on: February 28, 2017, 04:53:15 PM »
If I understand the purpose of SAME, we probably wouldn't need that.  All we'd need is the radio transmission itself.  Not the message encoded in the signal.

That AIW board looks like it has audio outputs we probably wouldn't need.  No amps, etc.  Just a simple radio receiver to receive the signal.  Then some way for Darkice to tap into the incoming signal.
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Offline tim273

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #197 on: February 28, 2017, 05:00:45 PM »
If I understand the purpose of SAME, we probably wouldn't need that.  All we'd need is the radio transmission itself.  Not the message encoded in the signal.

That AIW board looks like it has audio outputs we probably wouldn't need.  No amps, etc.  Just a simple radio receiver to receive the signal.  Then some way for Darkice to tap into the incoming signal.

I see what you are saying something to both stream and just be a plain radio to speakers?.  You don't need Darkice for that part radio part, but probably JACK audio () to route to multiple sound cards.  The Pi does have a sound output, it's got a composite video/stereo out jack (https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/audio-config.md).  So you could hook up a pair of computer speakers to it, but you would have to route the incoming signal to multiple sound cards, one being the default one for the speakers and the other being the loopback for streaming.  That's where JACK would come in as it supports routing to multiple sound cards: http://jackaudio.org/faq/multiple_devices.html

I'm not sure if ALSA loopback is considered a whole different sound card or not, so I'm not sure how it would work, but JACK should be able to do it.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, Darkice can use a JACK input so could route to both Darkice and the sound card from one input.  I don't know if JACK can use stdin or not.
Edit #2: You can pipe stdin to JACK: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/man1/jack-stdin.1.html
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 05:09:51 PM by tim273 »

Offline WxWes

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #198 on: February 28, 2017, 05:02:32 PM »

Just a quick question, if I have an Icecast server already, and wanted to have my stream on your side, would you do an Icecast relay or just manually add the stream?

http://icecast.org/docs/icecast-2.4.1/relaying.html

Yup, we could do either way... add your direct stream to our list/player, or if you wanted to keep people from using up all your bandwidth, I would just add an Icecast on-demand relay of your stream and it would only use 1 connection on your end anytime one or more people were listening to the stream.
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Offline tim273

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Re: NOAA WEATHER RADIO
« Reply #199 on: February 28, 2017, 10:00:27 PM »

Just a quick question, if I have an Icecast server already, and wanted to have my stream on your side, would you do an Icecast relay or just manually add the stream?

http://icecast.org/docs/icecast-2.4.1/relaying.html

Yup, we could do either way... add your direct stream to our list/player, or if you wanted to keep people from using up all your bandwidth, I would just add an Icecast on-demand relay of your stream and it would only use 1 connection on your end anytime one or more people were listening to the stream.

Ok, send me a PM and we can figure it out.  Thanks!

 

anything