WXforum.net
Weather Station Hardware => What Weather Station Should I Buy? => Topic started by: DC on February 23, 2017, 12:02:45 PM
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As a way of contributing to and paying back a forum that I have learned much from this post shares some of my findings as a novice into the world of weather, weather station technology, and trying to decide what to buy.
Entering any new technical area can be confusing with new terminology, acronyms, inaccurate information, etc. The first thing I wanted to understand is what products are available, how they worked, what are the limits in both vender specifications and real world environments. After initial research I decided to focus on three vendors in the all-in-one weather station market. The three were the Davis Instruments, Acurite, and Ambient Weather.
I was disappointed in the vendor comparison reviews I was able to find. Not much detail, seemed dated, information was inconsistent, no real world testing, etc. So in order to better understand and compare capabilities, I created a comparison chart of the three vendors (see attached). A couple of comments on the chart:
• I have no bias or preferred vendor, my objective is to find the systems that best met my needs
• There are more than three vendors, I only limited my search to three to save time.
• The specifications are from the vendors published specification or from queries into vendor customer service organizations. Note this comparison chart does not look at ease of set up, usability, and reliability. Also, my research to date has not focused on the capabilities of the web and/or mobile applications available from system vendors, third party, open source, etc.
• The prices referenced are from Amazon and/or vendors website. Prices of course are subject to change, negotiation, specials, etc.
• Since Acurite is one of the vendors I was evaluating and they have officially announced their next generation of product line with some specifications, I have included these products in the chart. In Acurite’s press release dated January 1, 2017 the company states, “the systems will be available later this year”.
Some lessons learned from my journey to help you make the most informed decision and to avoid the ‘I wish I would have known’.
• Like all projects define your objectives for a weather system, including ranking/prioritizing specific measurement needs and features. Also, think about usability and how you will view/use the information. Of course what is your budget?
• Think about your location climate, landscape, and where you are willing to put your sensor before buying. Very few people will have the perfect location to meet official weather standards for the most accurate measurements. Take the time learn about these factors from this forum, vendor web sites, etc to understand the issues, challenges, trade offs. You will more than likely have to compromise, which is why prioritizing, is key.
• Accuracy. We all want our system to be accurate, isn’t that the point of a PWS, what is happening at my property now as opposed to app that pulls data from XX miles away and updates every hour. Accuracy depends on the specification of system and location of the sensor(s). The most accurate weather stations have separate components that are placed in the appropriate locations according to standards. The all-in-one weather stations are a trade off in overall accuracy by design for lower price and ease of installation. My take is all three of the vendor’s products provide an accurate representation of the weather from the sensor. They all work, they all have had some issues along their respective product life cycles, some of which are product related and some are user related. Some products can be more (see specs for how much more) accurate with better sensors, more frequent update intervals, and reporting, which may or may not be important to you. However, my take is a system with average specifications properly located will be more accurate than a system with excellent specifications that is poorly located. A comment of Internet weather community sites, such as weather underground. While they can be interesting, fun, and informative, I wouldn’t use them to test accuracy of your weather station other than at a high level due to difference in distance, evaluation, update time, sensor location, type of system, etc. The most precise way to test your system for accuracy is with hand held instrumentation at the sensor and/or install 2 products side by side.
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Nice chart.
One comment, is that the Davis Vantage VUE does support a remote anemometer via 6332 and a VP2 anemometer. I have several VUE consoles configured this way.
Detachable Anemometer No No Yes, cable Yes, cable No Yes, cable or wireless
So the answer is "no" to cabled, "yes" to wireless for VUE.
Greg H.
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Good catch, attached is the updated chart.
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Nice chart. A couple things though. You should add "Water Temperature" sensor capability (pools, spas, lakes, etc.) and use MSRP. For example on the latter, yesterday you could have got the Acurite for $99 bucks - free shipping.
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Good catch, I am actually planning on using this functionality for lake water temperatures this spring. FWIW, both Acurite and Davis offer the water/liquid probe with the temperature sensor. Acurite makes it obvious with lots of options and Davis requires a little bit of digging to see that you can measure liquid/water temperature with their wireless temperature probe. See updated attachment.
As to MSRP pricing, I choose Amazon because I think it is the fairest overall sense of what these products are selling for without constantly updating for sales like you reference and very few products sell for MSRP. More important than pricing to me and the primary objective of the chart is give interested buyers, especially newbies an understanding capability and accuracy specs to answer questions about accuracy and how accurate is accurate enough for their needs and location.
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Amazon might be a lot of things, but .... 'fair'? You must not be too familiar with how they operate.
If you're going to do a comparison chart, keep it fully impartial. Either list multiple places for purchase, or none at all.
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To be correct the Vantage Vue does not have a "detachable anemometer" (as such) but has the ability to receive from a separate secondary Anemometer kit (in lieu of the standard Vue anemometer) which is not part of a stand-alone Vantage Vue package and is an additional purchase.
Number of sensors supported including the all in one sensor (1 with Vue Console). The Vue console can receive the Vue ISS plus Anemometer Transmitter kit, which would make 2 "including the all in one sensor"
Also check the Soil & Leaf capability (Yes?) for the Vue
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To be correct the Vantage Vue does not have a "detachable anemometer" (as such) but has the ability to receive from a separate secondary Anemometer kit (in lieu of the standard Vue anemometer) which is not part of a stand-alone Vantage Vue package and is an additional purchase.
Number of sensors supported including the all in one sensor (1 with Vue Console). The Vue console can receive the Vue ISS plus Anemometer Transmitter kit, which would make 2 "including the all in one sensor"
Also check the Soil & Leaf capability (Yes?) for the Vue
Yes, good catch on clarification, revised is attached.
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Amazon might be a lot of things, but .... 'fair'? You must not be too familiar with how they operate.
If you're going to do a comparison chart, keep it fully impartial. Either list multiple places for purchase, or none at all.
I debated on weather or not to include prices, I believe it is relevant and helps to position products when looking at capability but as stated above prices and for that matter configuration details are not the primary objective of the chart.
As to your Amazon comment, it is the only market place I found that sells all three products, there may be others. You are taking my comment about market prices via amazon out of context, I have no comment on amazon business practices being fair or not, it is just a benchmark. You are welcome to and I will not be offended if you want to add as many pricing options from as many vendors as you wish to this post or the document.
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DC,
I'd like to take a moment to thank you for putting all the work in on creating this resource. Hopefully you've made the process of choosing a weather station much easier for all of us. Deciding on a weather station can be an exercise in confusion, especially for a newbie.
Thanks again for a job well done!
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I too would like to thank you DC! Your chart makes me all the more motivated to wait for the release of the Atlas Elite. My hopes/concerns for that unit are: build quality/accuracy of sensors, functionality of software, and ability to separate sensors in an effective manner so as to give more accurate readings than all-in-one units. I'm also wondering about whether the solar cells will be charging the batteries in addition to powering the aspirating fan (a fan that might not be needed for cooling if a separate temp sensor can be placed in a properly shaded area).
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I would also like to add my thanks for the chart. As a complete newbie to weather stations, this is really helpful for me to learn about the differences between the available products without having to dig through multiple forums and posts.
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You need to change your Davis info. The solar cell does not charge the battery. The battery in the ISS is non chargable. The solar cell charges up an super Cap that is used at night to run the unit and the battery only kicks in when the super cap is discharged.
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As a way of contributing to and paying back a forum that I have learned much from this post shares some of my findings as a novice into the world of weather, weather station technology, and trying to decide what to buy.
Entering any new technical area can be confusing with new terminology, acronyms, inaccurate information, etc. The first thing I wanted to understand is what products are available, how they worked, what are the limits in both vender specifications and real world environments. After initial research I decided to focus on three vendors in the all-in-one weather station market. The three were the Davis Instruments, Acurite, and Ambient Weather.
I was disappointed in the vendor comparison reviews I was able to find. Not much detail, seemed dated, information was inconsistent, no real world testing, etc. So in order to better understand and compare capabilities, I created a comparison chart of the three vendors (see attached). A couple of comments on the chart:
• I have no bias or preferred vendor, my objective is to find the systems that best met my needs
• There are more than three vendors, I only limited my search to three to save time.
• The specifications are from the vendors published specification or from queries into vendor customer service organizations. Note this comparison chart does not look at ease of set up, usability, and reliability. Also, my research to date has not focused on the capabilities of the web and/or mobile applications available from system vendors, third party, open source, etc.
• The prices referenced are from Amazon and/or vendors website. Prices of course are subject to change, negotiation, specials, etc.
• Since Acurite is one of the vendors I was evaluating and they have officially announced their next generation of product line with some specifications, I have included these products in the chart. In Acurite’s press release dated January 1, 2017 the company states, “the systems will be available later this year”.
Some lessons learned from my journey to help you make the most informed decision and to avoid the ‘I wish I would have known’.
• Like all projects define your objectives for a weather system, including ranking/prioritizing specific measurement needs and features. Also, think about usability and how you will view/use the information. Of course what is your budget?
• Think about your location climate, landscape, and where you are willing to put your sensor before buying. Very few people will have the perfect location to meet official weather standards for the most accurate measurements. Take the time learn about these factors from this forum, vendor web sites, etc to understand the issues, challenges, trade offs. You will more than likely have to compromise, which is why prioritizing, is key.
• Accuracy. We all want our system to be accurate, isn’t that the point of a PWS, what is happening at my property now as opposed to app that pulls data from XX miles away and updates every hour. Accuracy depends on the specification of system and location of the sensor(s). The most accurate weather stations have separate components that are placed in the appropriate locations according to standards. The all-in-one weather stations are a trade off in overall accuracy by design for lower price and ease of installation. My take is all three of the vendor’s products provide an accurate representation of the weather from the sensor. They all work, they all have had some issues along their respective product life cycles, some of which are product related and some are user related. Some products can be more (see specs for how much more) accurate with better sensors, more frequent update intervals, and reporting, which may or may not be important to you. However, my take is a system with average specifications properly located will be more accurate than a system with excellent specifications that is poorly located. A comment of Internet weather community sites, such as weather underground. While they can be interesting, fun, and informative, I wouldn’t use them to test accuracy of your weather station other than at a high level due to difference in distance, evaluation, update time, sensor location, type of system, etc. The most precise way to test your system for accuracy is with hand held instrumentation at the sensor and/or install 2 products side by side.
Where are you seeing the Acurite Pro+ has soil sensors? I don't see that on their webpage, but I've been looking for a soil sensor.
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Didn't see option for snow heater for VP2, also has longer range repeaters options if needed. All those soil, leaf etc sensors will cost much more also and not standard.
http://www.davisnet.com/product/wireless-long-range-repeater-with-solar-power/
The worse thing about the VP2 needs highlighted, it doesn't have altimeter pressure ability which is a biggy for those not at sea level. Yes, it can send adjusted altimeter using software to CWOP and WU but as an station owner you are still stuck looking at SLP on console. Not good IMO.
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I took another look at the latest version and I noticed that the item for Lightning says "Lighting". You may want to fix this when you get the chance.
Greg H.
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The Elite holds the trophy for update intervals/and has most of the important features pretty much. I cant wait to score one!
Not impressed at all with them specs that the David VP2 has, and for that kind of money!, and you don't even get a fan you have to pay for the upgrade?? :roll:
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Not impressed at all with them specs that the David VP2 has, and for that kind of money!, and you don't even get a fan you have to pay for the upgrade?? :roll:
Really? What are you reading? There isn't ONE thing the Elite does better/more accurately than a VP2, except update a half a second quicker. :roll:
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Not impressed at all with them specs that the David VP2 has, and for that kind of money!, and you don't even get a fan you have to pay for the upgrade?? :roll:
Really? What are you reading? There isn't ONE thing the Elite does better/more accurately than a VP2, except update a half a second quicker. :roll:
Refresh times From what I'm seeing;
AcuRite Elite VP2
wind speed- 2s 2.5s
Range- 0-200mph 1-200mph
direction- 2s 2.5s
out side temp- 2s (-40 to 158) 10-12s(-40 to 150)
Humidity- 30s 50-60s
UV- 2s 1m
Rain- 10s 20-24s
and that's not all of them, am I not seeing it right?
and one has to pay to get a fan for that kind of $?
:roll: :roll:
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Not impressed at all with them specs that the David VP2 has, and for that kind of money!, and you don't even get a fan you have to pay for the upgrade?? :roll:
Really? What are you reading? There isn't ONE thing the Elite does better/more accurately than a VP2, except update a half a second quicker. :roll:
Refresh times From what I'm seeing;
Isn't that what I just said? This is Acurite attempt to sway people with, to me a meaningless somewhat quicker update time, away from the VP2 with superior sensors. The only update time that matters here is a half second quicker with the wind, and that's no deal breaker. I'll keep my VP2, enjoy your Elite.
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Not impressed at all with them specs that the David VP2 has, and for that kind of money!, and you don't even get a fan you have to pay for the upgrade?? :roll:
Really? What are you reading? There isn't ONE thing the Elite does better/more accurately than a VP2, except update a half a second quicker. :roll:
Refresh times From what I'm seeing;
Isn't that what I just said? This is Acurite attempt to sway people with, to me a meaningless somewhat quicker update time, away from the VP2 with superior sensors. The only update time that matters here is a half second quicker with the wind, and that's no deal breaker. I'll keep my VP2, enjoy your Elite.
Most of then readings are more then a half second faster AND you get a 24hr fan.
Faster quicker updated information is better to me.
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Not impressed at all with them specs that the David VP2 has, and for that kind of money!, and you don't even get a fan you have to pay for the upgrade?? :roll:
Really? What are you reading? There isn't ONE thing the Elite does better/more accurately than a VP2, except update a half a second quicker. :roll:
Refresh times From what I'm seeing;
Isn't that what I just said? This is Acurite attempt to sway people with, to me a meaningless somewhat quicker update time, away from the VP2 with superior sensors. The only update time that matters here is a half second quicker with the wind, and that's no deal breaker. I'll keep my VP2, enjoy your Elite.
Most of then readings are more then a half second faster.
Faster quicker updated information is better to me. And no fan.
Yes, quicker is better, but the only relevant one is the wind (barely), the others are nothing more than window dressing as far as I'm concerned.
Enjoy your low/no wind temp spikes without a fan too.
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Not impressed at all with them specs that the David VP2 has, and for that kind of money!, and you don't even get a fan you have to pay for the upgrade?? :roll:
Really? What are you reading? There isn't ONE thing the Elite does better/more accurately than a VP2, except update a half a second quicker. :roll:
Refresh times From what I'm seeing;
Isn't that what I just said? This is Acurite attempt to sway people with, to me a meaningless somewhat quicker update time, away from the VP2 with superior sensors. The only update time that matters here is a half second quicker with the wind, and that's no deal breaker. I'll keep my VP2, enjoy your Elite.
Most of then readings are more then a half second faster.
Faster quicker updated information is better to me. And no fan.
Yes, quicker is better, but the only relevant one is the wind (barely), the others are nothing more than window dressing as far as I'm concerned.
Enjoy your low/no wind temp spikes without a fan too.
Why would anyone want a station that delivers slooow/slower data when there's quicker avalible? All data is relevant isn't that why we have weather stations? to observe current readings?
Unclear on your "Enjoy your low/no wind temp spikes without a fan too" statement? the Elite has a 24hr fan your VP2 after spending almost $700 you need to upgrade more because you have no fan, really?
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Not impressed at all with them specs that the David VP2 has, and for that kind of money!, and you don't even get a fan you have to pay for the upgrade?? :roll:
Really? What are you reading? There isn't ONE thing the Elite does better/more accurately than a VP2, except update a half a second quicker. :roll:
Refresh times From what I'm seeing;
Isn't that what I just said? This is Acurite attempt to sway people with, to me a meaningless somewhat quicker update time, away from the VP2 with superior sensors. The only update time that matters here is a half second quicker with the wind, and that's no deal breaker. I'll keep my VP2, enjoy your Elite.
Most of then readings are more then a half second faster.
Faster quicker updated information is better to me. And no fan.
Yes, quicker is better, but the only relevant one is the wind (barely), the others are nothing more than window dressing as far as I'm concerned.
Enjoy your low/no wind temp spikes without a fan too.
Why would anyone want a station that delivers slooow/slower data when there's quicker avalible? All data is relevant isn't that why we have weather stations? to observe current readings?
Unclear on your "Enjoy your low/no wind temp spikes without a fan too" statement? the Elite has a 24hr fan your VP2 after spending almost $700 you need to upgrade more because you have no fan really?
Because they're basically meaningless, TO ME.
As far as the fan comment, I was merely going off your comment "And no fan".
As far as "upgrade more because you have no fan", I have no idea what you're referring to. I did remove the stock fan and now use a case fan for convenience, reliability, and greater performance.
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Not impressed at all with them specs that the David VP2 has, and for that kind of money!, and you don't even get a fan you have to pay for the upgrade?? :roll:
Really? What are you reading? There isn't ONE thing the Elite does better/more accurately than a VP2, except update a half a second quicker. :roll:
Refresh times From what I'm seeing;
Isn't that what I just said? This is Acurite attempt to sway people with, to me a meaningless somewhat quicker update time, away from the VP2 with superior sensors. The only update time that matters here is a half second quicker with the wind, and that's no deal breaker. I'll keep my VP2, enjoy your Elite.
Most of then readings are more then a half second faster.
Faster quicker updated information is better to me. And no fan.
Yes, quicker is better, but the only relevant one is the wind (barely), the others are nothing more than window dressing as far as I'm concerned.
Enjoy your low/no wind temp spikes without a fan too.
Why would anyone want a station that delivers slooow/slower data when there's quicker avalible? All data is relevant isn't that why we have weather stations? to observe current readings?
Unclear on your "Enjoy your low/no wind temp spikes without a fan too" statement? the Elite has a 24hr fan your VP2 after spending almost $700 you need to upgrade more because you have no fan really?
Because they're basically meaningless, TO ME.
As far as the fan comment, I was merely going off your comment "And no fan".
As far as "upgrade more because you have no fan", I have no idea what you're referring to. I did remove the stock fan and now use a case fan for convenience, reliability, and greater performance.
According to the OP spread sheet the VP2 has no fan you need to "upgrade" to get the fan?
and you came riding in sward held high saying the Elite does nothing better then the VP2, I was just correcting the info.
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The VP2 ISS comes three ways, passive ISS, daytime FARS, and 24hr FARS.
The Elite doesn't do anything better than a 24hr FARS VP2, except the update interval, which I believe we've already discussed. This is not opinion, but in black and white print.
Dismount.
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2% vs .5% outside temperature accuracy is a biggly :-P for those looking at specs. The .5 (1/2%) is actually better than that with the newly released SHT31 specs. Also for outside humidity the Davis is across full 0-100% scale not between some narrow range Ie:40-80% like most do with the specs.
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The VP2 ISS comes three ways, passive ISS, daytime FARS, and 24hr FARS.
The Elite doesn't do anything better than a 24hr FARS VP2, except the update interval, which I believe we've already discussed. This is not opinion, but in black and white print.
Dismount.
Yes but you need to "upgrade" it to get a fan, it don't come standard with one? the Elite comes standard with it for one price.
And faster update IS better, I'm confused on how the term better is not according to you. Even though update time may not be relevant to a consumer the fact still remains.
If the VP2 had the faster refresh times and standard with a FARS and there price wasn't out of line I'd consider one.
I want the most current/updated weather conditions that's what I'm after.
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2% vs .5% outside temperature accuracy is a biggly :-P for those looking at specs. The .5 (1/2%) is actually better than that with the newly released SHT31 specs. Also for outside humidity the Davis is across full 0-100% scale not between some narrow range Ie:40-80% like most do with the specs.
I agree, the Elite and VP2 both has that range, that's good.
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2% vs .5% outside temperature accuracy is a biggly :-P for those looking at specs. The .5 (1/2%) is actually better than that with the newly released SHT31 specs.
"Biggly?" OMG... :lol:
The chart says %, but obviously is meant to be degrees of accuracy, which is 2.0F for the Elite and ~ 0.35F for the SHT31 VP2.
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"Biggly?" OMG... :lol:
Thought you would like that.... :lol:
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The VP2 ISS comes three ways, passive ISS, daytime FARS, and 24hr FARS.
The Elite doesn't do anything better than a 24hr FARS VP2, except the update interval, which I believe we've already discussed. This is not opinion, but in black and white print.
Dismount.
I want the most current/updated weather conditions that's what I'm after.
Fine, nothing wrong with that. I choose accuracy over knowing that .01" of rain actually fell 30 seconds earlier.
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The VP2 ISS comes three ways, passive ISS, daytime FARS, and 24hr FARS.
The Elite doesn't do anything better than a 24hr FARS VP2, except the update interval, which I believe we've already discussed. This is not opinion, but in black and white print.
Dismount.
I want the most current/updated weather conditions that's what I'm after.
Fine, nothing wrong with that. I choose accuracy over knowing that .01" of rain actually fell 30 seconds earlier.
And + or - a . or more of a % are you really going to see that? I'm not worried.
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2% vs .5% outside temperature accuracy is a biggly :-P for those looking at specs. The .5 (1/2%) is actually better than that with the newly released SHT31 specs. Also for outside humidity the Davis is across full 0-100% scale not between some narrow range Ie:40-80% like most do with the specs.
I agree, the Elite and VP2 both has that range, that's good.
The linear humidity range for the Elite was not in this pub. With it's average temp accuracy, I highly doubt that it's a completely flat 2% from 0-100% as is the SHT31.
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The VP2 ISS comes three ways, passive ISS, daytime FARS, and 24hr FARS.
The Elite doesn't do anything better than a 24hr FARS VP2, except the update interval, which I believe we've already discussed. This is not opinion, but in black and white print.
Dismount.
I want the most current/updated weather conditions that's what I'm after.
Fine, nothing wrong with that. I choose accuracy over knowing that .01" of rain actually fell 30 seconds earlier.
And + or - a . or more of a % are you really going to see that? I'm not worried.
I have absolutely no idea what you just said.
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2% vs .5% outside temperature accuracy is a biggly :-P for those looking at specs. The .5 (1/2%) is actually better than that with the newly released SHT31 specs. Also for outside humidity the Davis is across full 0-100% scale not between some narrow range Ie:40-80% like most do with the specs.
I agree, the Elite and VP2 both has that range, that's good.
The linear humidity range for the Elite was not in this pub. With it's average temp accuracy, I highly doubt that it's a completely flat 2% from 0-100% as is the SHT31.
I wish we had that info.
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The VP2 ISS comes three ways, passive ISS, daytime FARS, and 24hr FARS.
The Elite doesn't do anything better than a 24hr FARS VP2, except the update interval, which I believe we've already discussed. This is not opinion, but in black and white print.
Dismount.
I want the most current/updated weather conditions that's what I'm after.
Fine, nothing wrong with that. I choose accuracy over knowing that .01" of rain actually fell 30 seconds earlier.
And + or - a . or more of a % are you really going to see that? I'm not worried.
I have absolutely no idea what you just said.
I'm sorry you don't understand.
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The VP2 ISS comes three ways, passive ISS, daytime FARS, and 24hr FARS.
The Elite doesn't do anything better than a 24hr FARS VP2, except the update interval, which I believe we've already discussed. This is not opinion, but in black and white print.
Dismount.
I want the most current/updated weather conditions that's what I'm after.
Fine, nothing wrong with that. I choose accuracy over knowing that .01" of rain actually fell 30 seconds earlier.
And + or - a . or more of a % are you really going to see that? I'm not worried.
I have absolutely no idea what you just said.
I'm sorry you don't understand.
Ummmmm, okay....
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The VP2 ISS comes three ways, passive ISS, daytime FARS, and 24hr FARS.
The Elite doesn't do anything better than a 24hr FARS VP2, except the update interval, which I believe we've already discussed. This is not opinion, but in black and white print.
Dismount.
I want the most current/updated weather conditions that's what I'm after.
Fine, nothing wrong with that. I choose accuracy over knowing that .01" of rain actually fell 30 seconds earlier.
And + or - a . or more of a % are you really going to see that? I'm not worried.
I have absolutely no idea what you just said.
I'm sorry you don't understand.
Ummmmm, okay....
Mmmmmm it means, to me them minor discrepancies in accuracy between the two are irrelevant you would never notice it.
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You might not.......
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You might not.......
Tell me how you...would? so I know.
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You might not.......
Tell me how you...would? so I know.
Just my conjecture. Put them side by side, which will happen eventually, my money's on the ancient, but upgradeable VP2.
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You might not.......
Tell me how you...would? so I know.
Just my conjecture. Put them side by side, which will happen eventually, my money's on the ancient, but upgradeable VP2.
You know how many discrepancies margin of error there are in a test like that even being side by side and you think one could make an accurate assessment between the two with that? wouldn't happen. Again you would never notice.
Anyway nice chatting CW we agree to disagree.
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You might not.......
Tell me how you...would? so I know.
Just my conjecture. Put them side by side, which will happen eventually, my money's on the ancient, but upgradeable VP2.
You know how many discrepancies margin of error there are in a test like that even being side by side and you think one could make an accurate assessment between the two with that? wouldn't happen. Again you would never notice.
Anyway nice chatting CW we agree to disagree.
Absolutely I do. How do you think things are compared in the first place?
Anyways, yes, nice to debate civilly. UU
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You might not.......
Tell me how you...would? so I know.
Just my conjecture. Put them side by side, which will happen eventually, my money's on the ancient, but upgradeable VP2.
You know how many discrepancies margin of error there are in a test like that even being side by side and you think one could make an accurate assessment between the two with that? wouldn't happen. Again you would never notice.
Anyway nice chatting CW we agree to disagree.
Absolutely I do. How do you think things are compared in the first place?
Anyways, yes, nice to debate civilly. UU
How would you know which is is accurate/correct?
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You might not.......
Tell me how you...would? so I know.
Just my conjecture. Put them side by side, which will happen eventually, my money's on the ancient, but upgradeable VP2.
You know how many discrepancies margin of error there are in a test like that even being side by side and you think one could make an accurate assessment between the two with that? wouldn't happen. Again you would never notice.
Anyway nice chatting CW we agree to disagree.
Absolutely I do. How do you think things are compared in the first place?
Anyways, yes, nice to debate civilly. UU
How would you know which is is accurate/correct?
Welp, pretty much the way we all compare our PWS now, known nearby accurate stations, i.e ASOS's, RAWS, and such, extrapolation, and common sense. Of course, more stringent methods are available if desired, i.e NIST traceable sensors.
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Nearby stations may be accurate in themselves but that has no relevance to other stations in the vicinity unless they are sitting on top of each other.
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You might not.......
Tell me how you...would? so I know.
Just my conjecture. Put them side by side, which will happen eventually, my money's on the ancient, but upgradeable VP2.
You know how many discrepancies margin of error there are in a test like that even being side by side and you think one could make an accurate assessment between the two with that? wouldn't happen. Again you would never notice.
Anyway nice chatting CW we agree to disagree.
Absolutely I do. How do you think things are compared in the first place?
Anyways, yes, nice to debate civilly. UU
How would you know which is is accurate/correct?
Welp, pretty much the way we all compare our PWS now, known nearby accurate stations, i.e ASOS's, RAWS, and such, extrapolation, and common sense. Of course, more stringent methods are available if desired, i.e NIST traceable sensors.
So in other words you are guessing which is correct by using "nearby" station data?
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Mmmmmm it means, to me them minor discrepancies in accuracy between the two are irrelevant you would never notice it.
Here in upper Michigan, we just received 0.82" of rain in a 4 day period. Had the temperature been 1-2F degrees cooler during most of those days, we would have received 6-10" (15-25cm) of snow. Still think a degree or two doesn't really matter?
What happens when you (or anyone buying a station with a 2% margin of error) sees 31F (or -1C) on their weather station but looks outside only to see it's raining! Will it matter how often you are seeing temperature updates if they are wrong?
Forget about trying to determine if a particular month or year was above or below normal or whether a record was set unless it's obvious even to those without weather stations. Most monthly or yearly average temperature differentials are going to fall inside your margin of error.
Now, I am not trying to say that everyone needs to be a scientist or share the same priorities. I am, however, saying that if you're going to proclaim that some weather station that hasn't even hit the market is clearly better than its predecessors (particularly one as robust and proven as the VP2) based solely on how often it updates or whether it possesses fan assistance at a particular price point, then all's fair in love and war.
While I personally chose the fan assisted model, you cannot ignore 150 years of climate records based on passive thermometers because some new gizmo is available. There's still plenty of debate within the weather community over whether fans produce more accurate or more exaggerated results.
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Outside temperature, 2% or 2°F accuracy on the AcuRite, Does it matter how fast the sensor updates with accuracy like that? NOPE.
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Nearby stations may be accurate in themselves but that has no relevance to other stations in the vicinity unless they are sitting on top of each other.
If you're comparing wind or rain, couldn't agree more. Temp/dew/humidity absolutely can in benign conditions. I've studied thousands upon thousands of observations here for the 10 years I've had my VP2 and know exactly what I'm comparing. Is it fool proof, of course not, but if you know what you're doing, it very effective. What do you do??
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You might not.......
Tell me how you...would? so I know.
Just my conjecture. Put them side by side, which will happen eventually, my money's on the ancient, but upgradeable VP2.
You know how many discrepancies margin of error there are in a test like that even being side by side and you think one could make an accurate assessment between the two with that? wouldn't happen. Again you would never notice.
Anyway nice chatting CW we agree to disagree.
Absolutely I do. How do you think things are compared in the first place?
Anyways, yes, nice to debate civilly. UU
How would you know which is is accurate/correct?
Welp, pretty much the way we all compare our PWS now, known nearby accurate stations, i.e ASOS's, RAWS, and such, extrapolation, and common sense. Of course, more stringent methods are available if desired, i.e NIST traceable sensors.
So in other words you are guessing which is correct by using "nearby" station data?
Yeah, that's it. Like I said to the other guy, what do you do??
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The OP did a nice job of trying to help newcomers get some information to help them make a decision.
And from the number of downloads of his pdf it looks like he has been successful.
I thank him for all the work he put into it.
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The OP did a nice job of trying to help newcomers get some information to help them make a decision.
And from the number of downloads of his pdf it looks like he has been successful.
Well, yes, but a listing of bare facts alone isn't really sufficient to allow users to reach an informed decision. To start with, the facts are not all accurate as the list stands. How can you have a temperature accuracy expressed as a % - that's meaningless? And 'Number of sensors supported including the all in one sensor' certainly isn't 8 for the VP2 - that's the number of wireless channels. Perhaps the 'number of transmitters supported' is what's meant, but that then obscures the fact that eg a full-house 6345 VP2 transmitter could have up to 12 sensors fitted to it.
Second, the list is lacking any interpretation. For instance, beyond a certain point, faster update intervals do not provide any better weather monitoring.The VP2 (in terms of update intervals) is essentially as good as you need in order to deliver high quality weather readings. (OK, maybe it would be nice to have solar/UV at say 10-20sec intervals, but other than that.) Parameters like temperature and RH (and rainfall come to that) just do not change so quickly as to require per second updates.
And it doesn't highlight the difference between intrinsic sensor accuracy and real-world on-site accuracy. For instance, you can have a temperature sensor that was accurate to ±0.01° but if it wasn't in a good shield then it would be horribly inaccurate for measuring air temperature in practice. It's the quality of the shield that typically dominates temperature accuracy. Also, if a sensor transmitter is self-contained (ie self-powered) then it's far easier to locate it with good exposure and hence achieve much better weather readings than if it's tied to eg a power cable.
I'd suggest that the number of downloads reflects the level of interest in this sort of question certainly.
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It's the quality of the shield that typically dominates temperature accuracy.
Can't agree more here. The question is tought why Davis even sell the passive shield then? Its performance are really questionable if it need a fan 6+ months/year even up here in north.
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It's the quality of the shield that typically dominates temperature accuracy.
Can't agree more here. The question is tought why Davis even sell the passive shield then? Its performance are really questionable if it need a fan 6+ months/year even up here in north.
You won't find me using passive shield but if I did I would do so in best shaded area I could find for best accuracy.
Davis even though they sell top quality products (even their plastic stands out against solar deterioration) is also in business for profit so realizing larger portion of market looks at affordability while somewhat smaller portion is looking at best accuracy they offer options for both.
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Well, yes, but a listing of bare facts alone isn't really sufficient to allow users to reach an informed decision. To start with, the facts are not all accurate as the list stands. How can you have a temperature accuracy expressed as a % - that's meaningless?
So VERY true!
Usually when a percentage is expressed as accuracy there is a reference point like 20C. So at 20C it is within 2% (0.4C). Also, what they don't tell you is that at 0C there could be, for example, a 1C (2F) variance and at -20C a 2C variance and so on. Ditto in the other direction. May not be a linear deviation either. Could jump up at certain points. Obviously that information is missing here. Yet another reason not to trust manufacturers (pre-release) specs.
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It's the quality of the shield that typically dominates temperature accuracy.
Absolutely. For me the best part of the VP2 is it's wonderful aspirated radiation shield. Stick a decent fan in it, and it rivals the best money can buy.
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Can't agree more here. The question is tought why Davis even sell the passive shield then? Its performance are really questionable if it need a fan 6+ months/year even up here in north.
Because I believe the passive shield works fine in northern climates like mine when there is almost always a breeze when the sun is shining. I'd say the wind around here is at least as reliable as the wonderful Davis FARS. :grin:
On the very rare sunny hot day when there is no wind, the temperature feels hotter to me anyway, so I'm not going to sweat the slight accuracy a FARS may or may not give you. Some may argue that the FARS itself artificially effects the temp. Plus, I want a station that is as reliable and takes as little maintenance as possible and is wireless.
So the passive shield suits my needs better than with the added complications of a FARS, and I'm not going to pretend that my measurements of the weather variables are some great scientific experiment that needs accuracy to the most minute degree. :grin:
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Can't agree more here. The question is tought why Davis even sell the passive shield then? Its performance are really questionable if it need a fan 6+ months/year even up here in north.
Some may argue that the FARS itself artificially effects the temp.
It does, it artificially makes it more accurate.
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Can't agree more here. The question is tought why Davis even sell the passive shield then? Its performance are really questionable if it need a fan 6+ months/year even up here in north.
Some may argue that the FARS itself artificially effects the temp.
It does, it artificially makes it more accurate.
Wonderful, when I get a few hundred more dollars, I'll go buy one so that I can tell better exactly just how hot I feel. :lol:
Modern weather monitoring is wonderful, no one had a clue how hot it was before the advent of FARS. :lol:
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BTW, I understand people wanting to get the most accurate data possible, but I think it may be a disservice to people looking to get a PWS to try to convince them that a FARS is a necessity no matter what climate they live in, and no matter what they intend to use their station for, especially as good as the Davis passive shield is by itself. OTOH, it is good to make them aware of the option before they buy and whatever value it may have.
I agree that it would be good to take into account the accuracy of each station with the shields and equipment provided.
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BTW, I understand people wanting to get the most accurate data possible, but I think it may be a disservice to people looking to get a PWS to try to convince them that a FARS is a necessity no matter what climate they live in, and no matter what they intend to use their station for, especially as good as the Davis passive shield is by itself. OTOH, it is good to make them aware of the option before they buy and whatever value it may have.
I agree that it would be good to take into account the accuracy of each station with the shields and equipment provided.
As far as I'm concerned, all should have a fan, at least in the daytime. It's almost impossible to argue that a fan doesn't increase accuracy in light/no wind conditions. It's obviously a personal choice, those that don't care, those that think it's BS, and those that can't/don't want the added expense. Granted, the solar insolation here is off the chart in the summer, so as far as how much better, I've see as much as 5F difference here between my VP2 and the neighbors passive in calm wind.
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As far as I'm concerned, all should have a fan, at least in the daytime.
Maybe they should make it a law; even if you live in a moderate climate where the wind blows constantly, and you just use your station to know what it feels like outside, all PWS manufacturers should be required to equip their stations with FARS. :lol:
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As far as I'm concerned, all should have a fan, at least in the daytime.
Maybe they should make it a law
For "official" measurements, it is.
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As far as I'm concerned, all should have a fan, at least in the daytime.
Maybe they should make it a law
For "official" measurements, it is.
And everyone who buys a PWS is an "official"?
Can you give a reference to this law, who it applies to, and when it took effect?
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I don't know about it being a law, but this is what I got from ncdc.noaa.gov:
Surface Air Temperature
Each USCRN station has three thermometers which report independent temperature measurements each hour. These three observed temperature value are used to derive a single official USCRN temperature value for the hour. This single value is sometimes a median and sometimes an average of various combinations of the three observed values, depending on information about which instruments agree in a pairwise comparison within 0.3°C. Each station transmits the three independent observed values; the computation of the official USCRN temperature value is done after these values arrive at NCEI. The discussion below describes the details of the three observed values.
Each station has three Thermometrics platinum resistance thermometers, each of which is housed in its own Met One 076B 7308 aspirated solar shield. Each thermometer measures the temperature (in degrees Celsius) every 2 seconds. Every 5 minutes the station datalogger computes the average of these 2-second values, giving 12 5-minute averages for each thermometer. Standard deviations are also calculated for each thermometer. Finally, a moving 5-minute average displaced 10-seconds at a time is used to determine the maximum and minimum 5-minute periods ending within the hour in question.
In addition to the thermometer values, the station also measures the speed of the fan in each aspirated shield. As the shield's fan rotates, a contact closes and generates a pulse twice per rotation. The datalogger counts these pulses every two seconds. Every hour these 2-second values are averaged to obtain an average number of pulses per second for the hour. The hourly data stream from the station thus include the average pulse rate per second for each of the three sensors. The actual speed of the fan in revolutions per second is half the pulse rate.
So, I assume along with your mandatory aspirated radiation shield, you also have three Thermometrics platinum resistance thermometers, check every two seconds, check the fan speeds, etc., etc.?
If this is the law, you must have a pretty impressive setup, and it's not a Davis.
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I've obviously have you all involved here. "Official" measurements in the US are done mostly, if not all, by ASOS's. To the best of my knowledge, all are aspirated.
Your sarcasm is worthless to the conversation.
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Your sarcasm is worthless to the conversation.
Says the PWS cop.
Look, you haven't compared an aspirated shield to a non aspirated shield where I live, you don't have a clue when you say I should be required to have an aspirated shield no matter how I use my station, and no matter how much money I have or wish to spend. As I've said before, over and over again, I am not interested in the added expense, maintenance, etc., to get what I consider to be a marginal improvement in accuracy.
Sarcasm or not, I am addressing the issue, you just aren't willing to acknowledge other views and needs. You believe you are a more knowledgeable and superior person for having an aspirated fan, so be it. I still think both sides should be presented. I also believe that facts matter, if you claim something is a law you need to be able to back it up, and if you believe one part of the "law" is so important, why not the other parts concerning the equipment used and collection of data? Call it sarcasm all you want.
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ok
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This fan aspirated stuff is a little over done as there would be an awful lot of "official" stations that are naturally aspirated
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This fan aspirated stuff is a little over done as there would be an awful lot of "official" stations that are naturally aspirated
And you base your remark on what? The current ASOS thermometer is designated the HO-1088, though some older systems still utilize the HO-83, both aspirated.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/2013-09-19_09_28_07_ASOS_HO-1088_thermometer_at_Eureka_Airport%2C_Nevada.JPG
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Not impressed at all with them specs that the David VP2 has, and for that kind of money!, and you don't even get a fan you have to pay for the upgrade?? :roll:
Really? What are you reading? There isn't ONE thing the Elite does better/more accurately than a VP2, except update a half a second quicker. :roll:
As a retired Broadcast Engineer and an owner of a number of Acurite products including a 5-in-1 outdoor sensor and a 3-in-1 sensor, 2 SmartHUBs, T/H sensors, etc, etc, I feel somewhat qualified to to comment on Chaney/Acurite products.
As you probably know, the ride on the Acurite bus in the last few months has been pretty rough. 2 major outages involving the migration of the Aculink Bridge to a SmartHUB and the latest, Acurite contracting with Amazon for server service along with WU server problems that took Acurite off the WU map for days!
I have tried to help out with around 475 posts on the Acurite forum but to be honest, Chaney has a serious Quality Control problem that doesn't seem to be getting any better. Far too many customers are buying product that is DOA. When customers can't even get a new 5 volt wall wart that works and the fancy color display is defective out of the box, something is definitely wrong.
I would be curious to know if Davis, Ambient, and others are having high failure rates from newly purchased products as well?
Until Acurite can get a handle on this QC problem, I would be very hesitant to invest in the new Elite product line.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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This fan aspirated stuff is a little over done as there would be an awful lot of "official" stations that are naturally aspirated
And you base your remark on what? The current ASOS thermometer is designated the HO-1088, though some older systems still utilize the HO-83, both aspirated.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/2013-09-19_09_28_07_ASOS_HO-1088_thermometer_at_Eureka_Airport%2C_Nevada.JPG
Based on the fact that the majority of "official" sites are in fact naturally aspirated. One could look at this from another angle that anything fan based then has to be "Un-natural"
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How responsive was Acurite customer service to your quality control problems with the defective power transformer and color display? You warn against the new Atlas Elite but if Acurite addresses hardware issues quickly and honestly then I would still be on board with trusting them to do the right thing when they roll out their new line. I was all set to enter the pws hobby when I heard about the Atlas Elite and decided to hold out and wait till its release. It looks to be a rare new and exciting entry if it doesn't ultimately turn out to be a fiasco (for purchaser and company alike)! :shock:
As a retired Broadcast Engineer and an owner of a number of Acurite products including a 5-in-1 outdoor sensor and a 3-in-1 sensor, 2 SmartHUBs, T/H sensors, etc, etc, I feel somewhat qualified to to comment on Chaney/Acurite products.
As you probably know, the ride on the Acurite bus in the last few months has been pretty rough. 2 major outages involving the migration of the Aculink Bridge to a SmartHUB and the latest, Acurite contracting with Amazon for server service along with WU server problems that took Acurite off the WU map for days!
I have tried to help out with around 475 posts on the Acurite forum but to be honest, Chaney has a serious Quality Control problem that doesn't seem to be getting any better. Far too many customers are buying product that is DOA. When customers can't even get a new 5 volt wall wart that works and the fancy color display is defective out of the box, something is definitely wrong...... [/quote]
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And you base your remark on what? The current ASOS thermometer is designated the HO-1088, though some older systems still utilize the HO-83, both aspirated.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/2013-09-19_09_28_07_ASOS_HO-1088_thermometer_at_Eureka_Airport%2C_Nevada.JPG
I think that's kind of funny, considering the aspirated HO-83 was known for reading 1 to 2 C too high, so my affordable passive shield Davis at least rivals some ASOS equipment. :grin:
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How responsive was Acurite customer service to your quality control problems with the defective power transformer and color display? You warn against the new Atlas Elite but if Acurite addresses hardware issues quickly and honestly then I would still be on board with trusting them to do the right thing when they roll out their new line. I was all set to enter the pws hobby when I heard about the Atlas Elite and decided to hold out and wait till its release. It looks to be a rare new and exciting entry if it doesn't ultimately turn out to be a fiasco (for purchaser and company alike)! :shock:
As a retired Broadcast Engineer and an owner of a number of Acurite products including a 5-in-1 outdoor sensor and a 3-in-1 sensor, 2 SmartHUBs, T/H sensors, etc, etc, I feel somewhat qualified to to comment on Chaney/Acurite products.
As you probably know, the ride on the Acurite bus in the last few months has been pretty rough. 2 major outages involving the migration of the Aculink Bridge to a SmartHUB and the latest, Acurite contracting with Amazon for server service along with WU server problems that took Acurite off the WU map for days!
I have tried to help out with around 475 posts on the Acurite forum but to be honest, Chaney has a serious Quality Control problem that doesn't seem to be getting any better. Far too many customers are buying product that is DOA. When customers can't even get a new 5 volt wall wart that works and the fancy color display is defective out of the box, something is definitely wrong......
[/quote]
To Beaver Meadow:
Acurite has been EXTREMELY responsive to customer complaints. In fact, they have replaced countless items that were "out of warranty" due to a known defect that was discovered later. They even provide 2 day FedEx shipping for replacement items!
As weather geeks, I think we're all interested in what this new Atlas Elite product is all about. Whether the product will be as good as all the hype or not.
The Chaney Quality Control issue stems from the fact that everything is made in China. Those factories CAN make very high quality product IF the company controlling them (Chaney) pushes for quality over price. Right now Chaney is opting for the low price and as a result, the quality suffers.
Since Chaney hasn't announced pricing for the Atlas Elite line, I hope they'll lean toward slightly higher prices with a goal of improving the quality and reliability.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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This fan aspirated stuff is a little over done as there would be an awful lot of "official" stations that are naturally aspirated
And you base your remark on what? The current ASOS thermometer is designated the HO-1088, though some older systems still utilize the HO-83, both aspirated.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/2013-09-19_09_28_07_ASOS_HO-1088_thermometer_at_Eureka_Airport%2C_Nevada.JPG
Based on the fact that the majority of "official" sites are in fact naturally aspirated. One could look at this from another angle that anything fan based then has to be "Un-natural"
What, and we're just suppose to take your word for it? I supplied proof. Where's yours? Here's more "un-natural" proof. But I guess these folks don't know what they're talking about either. :roll:
http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/accuracy-differences-in-naturally-vs-fan-aspirated-shields/
http://tslinc.com/systems/instruments-hygrothermometer/
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And you base your remark on what? The current ASOS thermometer is designated the HO-1088, though some older systems still utilize the HO-83, both aspirated.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/2013-09-19_09_28_07_ASOS_HO-1088_thermometer_at_Eureka_Airport%2C_Nevada.JPG
I think that's kind of funny, considering the aspirated HO-83 was known for reading 1 to 2 C too high, so my affordable passive shield Davis at least rivals some ASOS equipment. :grin:
As a matter of fact that was here and the problem was addressed.
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Here you go for aspirated vs none-aspirated:
http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/www/IMOP/publications/IOM-106_Ghardaia/IOM-106_Report.pdf
http://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/weather/app_notes/AN_24-temp-radiation-shield-comparison.pdf
Expecially the graph on page 2 in the Davis document.
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Here you go for aspirated vs none-aspirated:
http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/www/IMOP/publications/IOM-106_Ghardaia/IOM-106_Report.pdf
http://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/weather/app_notes/AN_24-temp-radiation-shield-comparison.pdf
Expecially the graph on page 2 in the Davis document.
They don't know what they're talking about either. :lol:
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As a matter of fact that was here and the problem was addressed.
Was here? You mean on the forum? And addressing the problem means the problem is no more or never was?
No matter how you may belittle the fact, it shows there are other factors rather than just passive vs. fan aspiration, and that even expensive equipment has its problems. What you don't seem to understand is that there are other climates and situations rather than yours, or even than the places supposedly scientific studies have been conducted at. A quick glance at at least one of those studies says that the maximum windspeed never got over 5mph, so you really think I should run out and buy the supposedly "necessary" fan when I don't live in such an area and that I should get excited over a possible rare 1 or 2 degree over reading?
Maybe before you mandate that everyone be required to get a FARS, you should mandate inspections to make sure that everyone's equipment is sited properly, I think that has far more of an effect on the data.
I know this issue has been raised over and over again, and some people, like me, just aren't going to see the need for added expense and problems for a marginal increase in accuracy, and others are going to continue to tell everyone that a FARS is absolutely, positively necessary; and if you don't have one you're not part of the elite and your readings are worthless.
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As a matter of fact that was here and the problem was addressed.
Was here? You mean on the forum? And addressing the problem means the problem is no more or never was?
No matter how you may belittle the fact, it shows there are other factors rather than just passive vs. fan aspiration, and that even expensive equipment has its problems. What you don't seem to understand is that there are other climates and situations rather than yours, or even than the places supposedly scientific studies have been conducted at. A quick glance at at least one of those studies says that the maximum windspeed never got over 5mph, so you really think I should run out and buy the supposedly "necessary" fan when I don't live in such an area and that I should get excited over a possible rare 1 or 2 degree over reading?
Maybe before you mandate that everyone be required to get a FARS, you should mandate inspections to make sure that everyone's equipment is sited properly, I think that has far more of an effect on the data.
I know this issue has been raised over and over again, and some people, like me, just aren't going to see the need for added expense and problems for a marginal increase in accuracy, and others are going to continue to tell everyone that a FARS is absolutely, positively necessary; and if you don't have one you're not part of the elite and your readings are worthless.
I don't think you should do ANYTHING. Mandate? Quit making crap up. You don't want a fan, trust me, I couldn't care less for you or anyone else. All I'm doing is presenting pubs and facts (obviously in an elitist way to boot). Sorry you're so "offended". I'm done with this topic.
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I don't think you should do ANYTHING. Mandate? Quit making crap up. You don't want a fan, trust me, I couldn't care less for you or anyone else. All I'm doing is presenting pubs and facts (obviously in an elitist way to boot). Sorry you're so "offended". I'm done with this topic.
Like you made up the part about there already being some kind of law?
Once again, I'm addressing issues that you seem to be ignoring, despite your pubs and facts. If I offended you by doing so, too bad, and goodbye.
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By the way, be careful about accusing me of making stuff up.
I don't think you should do ANYTHING. Mandate? Quit making crap up. You don't want a fan, trust me, I couldn't care less for you or anyone else. All I'm doing is presenting pubs and facts (obviously in an elitist way to boot). Sorry you're so "offended". I'm done with this topic.
As far as I'm concerned, all should have a fan, at least in the daytime.
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As far as I'm concerned, all should have a fan, at least in the daytime.
Maybe they should make it a law
For "official" measurements, it is.
Get a grip, it's called an opinion.
You made the law comment, and I merely played along not knowing you'd take it literally. My statement here is about NWS/FAA ASOS's which are required to be, and manufactured aspirated, and are used for official observations. Nothing difficult here.
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Regarding the notion of fan vs no fan:
What are your thoughts on separating the T/H sensor from the PWS altogether or making it removable from the PWS so it can be located at the appropriate height off the ground but in natural shade.
Many Acurite customers have strongly requested that option because of all the problems the fans create. Namely, dust, dirt, and for many, insect problems, especially wasps. Some have even reported ant infestations!
I personally think that the T/H sensor should be a removable plugin option. I believe that feature would satisfy everyone's needs.
Your thoughts?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Regarding the notion of fan vs no fan:
What are your thoughts on separating the T/H sensor from the PWS altogether or making it removable from the PWS so it can be located at the appropriate height off the ground but in natural shade.
Many Acurite customers have strongly requested that option because of all the problems the fans create. Namely, dust, dirt, and for many, insect problems, especially wasps. Some have even reported ant infestations!
I personally think that the T/H sensor should be a removable plugin option. I believe that feature would satisfy everyone's needs.
Your thoughts?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
If your question is for me, technically all high end weather stations are meant to be in the sun. Obviously a quality radiation shield is required. Shade is fine, if you can get it all day. My VP2 is in the sun from sunup to sundown.
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What are your thoughts on separating the T/H sensor from the PWS altogether or making it removable from the PWS so it can be located at the appropriate height off the ground but in natural shade.
Deffinitely. I have separated it in my both VP2's as it also gives better possibilites to seat both rainpot and temp-sensor in best possible locations. There are also an icing-issue with current "VP2-like" design where it collects ice between the rainpot and tempsensor expecially if rainpot are heated, not to forgot (with right conditions) the ice will also decrease the airflow to the temp-sensor and there are a clear risk that the ice will break the whole thing.
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I agree with TFD. All in ones to me are more like toys for wx amateurs.
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What are your thoughts on separating the T/H sensor from the PWS altogether or making it removable from the PWS so it can be located at the appropriate height off the ground but in natural shade.
Deffinitely. I have separated it in my both VP2's
:?:
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:?:
It was just an example about bad design. But seems other brands use that "rainpot on top of temp-sensor" design too...
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I thought you/he meant to physically take the temp/humidity sensor out of the ISS and place it somewhere else. :?
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I thought you/he meant to physically take the temp/humidity sensor out of the ISS and place it somewhere else. :?
That is exactly what i have did on my VP2's (attached pic from my second station w/o fan).
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I thought you/he meant to physically take the temp/humidity sensor out of the ISS and place it somewhere else. :?
That is exactly what i have did on my VP2's (attached pic from my second station w/o fan).
Why and where did you put it?
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Why and where did you put it?
Did you look at the pic :?:
They are separated to avoid snow/ice from building up between them like when they was on top of each other.
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Yes. Evidently I'm missing something cause I'm still confused.
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Why and where did you put it?
Did you look at the pic :?:
They are separated to avoid snow/ice from building up between them like when they was on top of each other.
OK, what's they?
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OK, what's they?
Rainpot/ISS and temp/hum-sensor
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OK, what's they?
Rainpot/ISS and temp/hum-sensor
So the temp/humidity sensor is still in the ISS sensor chamber were it belongs, yes?
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A big thing with me is how long the unit will last.
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As far as I'm concerned, all should have a fan, at least in the daytime.
Maybe they should make it a law
For "official" measurements, it is.
Get a grip, it's called an opinion.
You made the law comment, and I merely played along not knowing you'd take it literally. My statement here is about NWS/FAA ASOS's which are required to be, and manufactured aspirated, and are used for official observations. Nothing difficult here.
So my words are supposed to be taken to some kind of an extreme that your's aren't? You got all bent out of joint because I said "before you mandate..." But in your own words you said that as far as you're concerned that all stations should be aspirated. No matter how you try to walk it back now, you weren't only talking about "official" stations. Anyone can go back and read the context.
More of your words that aren't to be taken literally:I'm done with this topic.
Yeah, right. :roll: Then you suggest I'm the liar. :lol:
Maybe you'd be better off keeping your word if all you can do is make accusations and not address the issues.
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Whatever.............You're right, I'm wrong.
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As far as I'm concerned, all should have a fan, at least in the daytime.
Maybe they should make it a law
For "official" measurements, it is.
Get a grip, it's called an opinion.
You made the law comment, and I merely played along not knowing you'd take it literally. My statement here is about NWS/FAA ASOS's which are required to be, and manufactured aspirated, and are used for official observations. Nothing difficult here.
So my words are supposed to be taken to some kind of an extreme that your's aren't? You got all bent out of joint because I said "before you mandate..." But in your own words you said that as far as you're concerned that all stations should be aspirated. No matter how you try to walk it back now, you weren't only talking about "official" stations. Anyone can go back and read the context.
More of your words that aren't to be taken literally:I'm done with this topic.
Yeah, right. :roll: Then you suggest I'm the liar. :lol:
Maybe you'd be better off keeping your word if all you can do is make accusations and not address the issues.
He's right about the aspiration. I understand some people don't care enough for and/or can't afford a fan, but there are days almost everywhere where the sun is shining bright and the wind is little to none. It is on these days when a fan is needed. For those who truly care about their (especially afternoon) temps being as accurate as possible, a fan is highly recommended. I, for one, would never do without a fan, no matter where I lived, but I'm all about the utmost temperature accuracy; that's just me. And that's also CW. I totally understand where he's coming from. Aspiration vs. non; any day.
Just think about it. Would you rather your sensor be sensing old stagnant air (in a passive shield with sun beating down on it) or fresh air that is being pulled across it with a fan? Absolutely a no brainer to me.
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Yeah. Then maybe if you really care about accuracy you'd better buy a station that costs several thousand dollars and the perfect lot of land to put it on. (I suspect most people with the most expensive and supposedly accurate stations they can get negate all the benefits by siting them less than optimally.)
If you don't have a Davis, you're just some kid with a toy. If you have a Davis, but it isn't fan aspirated, then you're just a wannabe, hobbyist. If you have an aspirated Davis with all the accessories and the latest temp/hum sensor that's 1/10,000 of a degree more accurate, and you go out and buy the latest and best of everything, then you are a Great Meteorologist, far greater than us hobbyists with our little passive toy weather stations. (I wonder if those with RM Young or Campbell stations look on people with aspirated Davis stations with the same disdain that those with aspirated Davis stations look on those with non-aspirated stations.)
I'm glad everyone here understands the weather where I'm at better than I do, and knows exactly what I'm looking for in a weather station. I also hope that since you are so concerned with having 100% accurate readings 100% of the time, that you have plenty of backup stations for when something goes wrong with your mandatory fan aspirated station, or is being professionally calibrated, and to know when one of your stations gets a little out of calibration, or when there is some anomaly in the data from one of your stations.
I'll point out once again that I don't use my station for any official purpose other than for myself, I don't pretend to be a professional, and my station works for what I intend it for and for where I live, believe it or not. This subject has been covered over and over again from both sides, I don't think it's even about the facts anymore, I think's it's just become about who has the biggest and best toys.
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Yeah. Then maybe if you really care about accuracy you'd better buy a station that costs several thousand dollars and the perfect lot of land to put it on.
Not sure why I'd want to buy a station more expensive than the VP2 when it does everything I want and is accurate, especially with the newly released most accurate-to-date SHT31 temperature/humidity sensor. Awesome configuration of a radiation shield, check; triple wall technology for ample aspiration ventilation, check; 24 hr fan to be move air past temp sensor in said perfectly constructed radiation shield; check. I'm content. As far as a perfect lot of land, don't have that, but I have a nice compromise going for me.
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I am convinced the Davis VP2 is a wonderful product, but to get the features I want, it costs more than I am willing to spend. So I will keep looking for something that is affordable and reasonably reliable, accurate and durable. I am still waiting to see how the Acurite Atlas Elite shakes out (if it ever shows up in the market). I don't need something that is perfect, but there must be a "sweet spot" out there somewhere in the available products in the $500 or less price range. If I never find it, then I will just pass on having a PWS and let my neighbors invest in the Davis VP2 and hopefully publish on WU or another site that I can use. :-)
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I do believe that many/most if not all of the UK met office temp housings are normally aspirated, many in stevenson screens
some at airports in other shields, I feel the fan idea is a must for most back garden enthusiast due to the obstructions. Official
sites have uninterrupted sensor placements, no trees, no buildings, no hills etc, then there is the height of the grass, even that
can make a difference, having a fan can make up for some of our less fortunate sensor placings, I myself had to go 24hr fan
and still had to place it on the mast (13ft est) and i still think i maybe slightly above during the afternoon when there is little to
no breeze but no so much when there is some decent winds.
The image below is of 3 RAF bases, only Marham (EGYM) is the offical Met Office station but, the other 2 are still used
when looking at extremes, i.e. if Lakenheath (EGUL) was the hottest place in the UK it would be still mentioned regardless
The pink line is a Davis Vue, the day was yesterday and it was very breezy, 30mph+ gusts. The second image is minimal winds
bear in mind i am running a 4k rpm PC fan at 12v (VP2 Plus bought feb this year)
D7935: 1.6 miles (Lakenheath, UK: lat 52.4417, long 0.5982, altitude 14 metres)
EGUL: 4.3 miles (Lakenheath Royal Air Force Base, United Kingdom: lat 52.4093, long 0.5610, altitude 10 metres)
EGUN: 8.8 miles (Mildenhall Royal Air Force Base, United Kingdom: lat 52.3619, long 0.4864, altitude 10 metres)
EGYM: 12.9 miles (Marham, United Kingdom: lat 52.6483, long 0.5670, altitude 23 metres)
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I am convinced the Davis VP2 is a wonderful product, but to get the features I want, it costs more than I am willing to spend. So I will keep looking for something that is affordable and reasonably reliable, accurate and durable. I am still waiting to see how the Acurite Atlas Elite shakes out (if it ever shows up in the market). I don't need something that is perfect, but there must be a "sweet spot" out there somewhere in the available products in the $500 or less price range. If I never find it, then I will just pass on having a PWS and let my neighbors invest in the Davis VP2 and hopefully publish on WU or another site that I can use. :-)
I was in the same situation as you: new to weather stations, not wanting to spend relatively big money for a Davis, hoping the Acurite Elite would be a serious compromise between the shortcomings of the 5in1 type units and the more expensive systems. I was ready to wait for late spring and even early summer but with the VAGUENESS being exhibited by ACURITE with NO info forthcoming I got kinda frustrated. I speculated that they were having unforeseen problems somewhere along the line. (Better to not release a problematic product but still it would have been nice for some kind of updates). That being said, my research indicated to me that Acurite was a good company with fair customer relations and that the 5in1 systems they sell, while far from perfect, were being used very successfully by many hobbyists. So I decided to shop around and I got an awesome deal on a system on Amazon that included lightning detection FOR $130! I bought it with the intention of learning about and enjoying having a pws and am very pleased so far after about 5 weeks of use. Now I am no longer ANNOYED by the lack of the Elite being available and if/when it does get released I will still be able to sit back and wait to see just what more experienced hobbyists think about the quality of construction, improvements to software over Acurite's current sw, and of course just how accurate it really is vs. the teaser specs they put out when they first announced the product line.
Finally, Dear ACURITE: as much as I like you, you really should lose the COMING SOON on your website for the Atlas line. Change that to TBA (to be announced), or EXPECTED BY.........