Author Topic: Could use help selecting new weather computer  (Read 11452 times)

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Offline Ugly Duckling

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Could use help selecting new weather computer
« on: July 07, 2011, 04:20:17 PM »
I plan to purchase a new computer that will run 24/7 and only be used for weather.

I'm interested in your thoughts as what you would select.

Possibly such things as brand and model?
Desktop or laptop?

Software and anything else you may think is important.

Also I would like to operate two computers using one keyboard/mouse and one monitor . I've heard of this being done but know nothing about it.

Anyone had any experience with this?

Thanks!

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna



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Offline Aardvark

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2011, 04:29:31 PM »
I'd go with a desktop pair that with an UPS.

you can do the keyboard and mouse thing with a KVM switch

Offline Dr Obbins

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2011, 04:54:29 PM »
I have done the 2 computers with one screen thing and 2 computers with 3 screens. The only switch that the local computer shop had was for 4 computers and 1 mouse, keyboard, monitor. The issue that I ran into was the switch needed to be set on the appropriate computer when it was booting up. For instance if you start computer #1 the switch needed to be set to computer #1. If the switch was set on computer #2, #1 did not find the keyboard/mouse during start-up so they did not work. Then the only thing to do was a hard shutdown and then restart. For me it turned out to be a big hassle. Maybe other switches work better.

 Finally I ended up biting the bullet and purchased a new Dell quad core i5 with 8 gig of ram. I sold the other 2 towers and one laptop to pay for it. It easily handles the weather station running 24/7 and doesn't skip a beat for everything else I use the computer for. The only thing I wish I'd done was upgrade the video card. If you are planning on doing any webcam/movie making, get a decent video card. 

As mentioned, get a UPS.

Offline Bushman

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2011, 04:55:02 PM »
monoprice.com sells KVM swuitches from 20-50 bucks.  
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Offline Maumelle Weather

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2011, 04:58:01 PM »
Marci,

Go with a desktop (without monitor) with at least 2GB of RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium, Professional or Ultimate, a DVD burner, etc.  One thing to make sure you get with your machine is discs, either restore discs, or at least a disc withe the operating system on it.  Most do NOT come with discs anymore.

If you don't find a machine to your liking, you may know someone who builds their own systems.  I build my own and my weather box cost me approx. $400 in parts in 2009 and has been running pretty much 24/7 since.  I get all of my computer stuff from NewEgg.com.

Buy as large a UPS battery backup as you can afford for your weather computer, especially since you are running 24/7 with it.

John
GR2AE, GR3, Cumulus

Offline Aardvark

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2011, 05:13:55 PM »
I have an APC UPS.  I like it because I can change  the battery myself  when it needs it and also has monitoring software.   The software  allows it to , if it is tripped and the backup is running down to gracefully shut down the computer so no errors.  Then you can get your data back from your logger when you restart it.  It also conditions the power to the computer and monitor.  I have the power supply for the modem/router as well as the Davis console on that with a lot of space.  I have the backup ups  xs 1500 lcd, but you can  always shop around.

Considering the winter outages with that ice and snow we get, it is not a bad thing to have.

I would also consider adding an external backup drive to the whole thing,if you are interested in  archiving  data..not necessary but helps the paranoia a bit.

Offline Ugly Duckling

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2011, 05:14:41 PM »
I have done the 2 computers with one screen thing and 2 computers with 3 screens. The only switch that the local computer shop had was for 4 computers and 1 mouse, keyboard, monitor. The issue that I ran into was the switch needed to be set on the appropriate computer when it was booting up. For instance if you start computer #1 the switch needed to be set to computer #1. If the switch was set on computer #2, #1 did not find the keyboard/mouse during start-up so they did not work. Then the only thing to do was a hard shutdown and then restart. For me it turned out to be a big hassle. Maybe other switches work better.

 Finally I ended up biting the bullet and purchased a new Dell quad core i5 with 8 gig of ram. I sold the other 2 towers and one laptop to pay for it. It easily handles the weather station running 24/7 and doesn't skip a beat for everything else I use the computer for. The only thing I wish I'd done was upgrade the video card. If you are planning on doing any webcam/movie making, get a decent video card. 

As mentioned, get a UPS.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say switch needs to be on appropriate computer when booting.

Say one computer is on all night then the next day I turn on 2nd computer, switch now has to be switched to this one when booting? After 2nd computer is started can switch be turned from one to computer to the other?

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna





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Offline Ugly Duckling

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2011, 05:22:38 PM »
Marci,

Go with a desktop (without monitor) with at least 2GB of RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium, Professional or Ultimate, a DVD burner, etc.  One thing to make sure you get with your machine is discs, either restore discs, or at least a disc withe the operating system on it.  Most do NOT come with discs anymore.

If you don't find a machine to your liking, you may know someone who builds their own systems.  I build my own and my weather box cost me approx. $400 in parts in 2009 and has been running pretty much 24/7 since.  I get all of my computer stuff from NewEgg.com.

Buy as large a UPS battery backup as you can afford for your weather computer, especially since you are running 24/7 with it.

John


I didn't know most computers now don't come with Window's disc. The last 3 computers I purchased were Dell and they have always had discs but its been 8 months since my last purchase.
 
I have never used a UPS battery backup so I know nothing about them.

How is which 'Windows' operating system I select important to running weather stations?

Thanks!

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna



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Offline Ugly Duckling

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2011, 05:39:36 PM »
I have an APC UPS.  I like it because I can change  the battery myself  when it needs it and also has monitoring software.   The software  allows it to , if it is tripped and the backup is running down to gracefully shut down the computer so no errors.  Then you can get your data back from your logger when you restart it.  It also conditions the power to the computer and monitor.  I have the power supply for the modem/router as well as the Davis console on that with a lot of space.  I have the backup ups  xs 1500 lcd, but you can  always shop around.

Considering the winter outages with that ice and snow we get, it is not a bad thing to have.

I would also consider adding an external backup drive to the whole thing,if you are interested in  archiving  data..not necessary but helps the paranoia a bit.

It appears the APC UPS you purchased has been discontinued and the replacement is Power Saving Back-UPS XS 1500. Is this correct? I have it saved to favorites.

Does this one power supply, supply power to computer, modem, router and weather station?

Thanks!

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna




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Offline Maumelle Weather

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2011, 05:45:23 PM »

I didn't know most computers now don't come with Window's disc. The last 3 computers I purchased were Dell and they have always had discs but its been 8 months since my last purchase.
 
I have never used a UPS battery backup so I know nothing about them.

How is which 'Windows' operating system I select important to running weather stations?

Thanks!

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna


Several of my friends have bought computers in the last couple of years that did not have any discs with them, notably E-machines and HP, both were purchased at BestBuy, I believe.

a UPS itself is relatively easy, its the finding the right one and how long you want it to run and how much money to spend on one is the difficult, plus the bigger they get, the heavier they are.

On the OS's, I just listed those because those are the one's that are on most machines you buy today, especially the Home Premium version for the base model computers.
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Offline Bushman

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2011, 05:51:20 PM »
I have done the 2 computers with one screen thing and 2 computers with 3 screens. The only switch that the local computer shop had was for 4 computers and 1 mouse, keyboard, monitor. The issue that I ran into was the switch needed to be set on the appropriate computer when it was booting up. For instance if you start computer #1 the switch needed to be set to computer #1. If the switch was set on computer #2, #1 did not find the keyboard/mouse during start-up so they did not work. Then the only thing to do was a hard shutdown and then restart. For me it turned out to be a big hassle. Maybe other switches work better.

 Finally I ended up biting the bullet and purchased a new Dell quad core i5 with 8 gig of ram. I sold the other 2 towers and one laptop to pay for it. It easily handles the weather station running 24/7 and doesn't skip a beat for everything else I use the computer for. The only thing I wish I'd done was upgrade the video card. If you are planning on doing any webcam/movie making, get a decent video card. 

As mentioned, get a UPS.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say switch needs to be on appropriate computer when booting.

Say one computer is on all night then the next day I turn on 2nd computer, switch now has to be switched to this one when booting? After 2nd computer is started can switch be turned from one to computer to the other?


Correct - Some KVM switches  work like that since SOME PCs expect the keyboard and mouse to be attached or they fail the POST (self test).

Personally, I no longer use KVMs since  I just remote log in to all the boxes.
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Offline Ugly Duckling

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2011, 06:08:07 PM »
Not having used a battery backup I'm assuming these times when power flickers off a second requiring computer to restart when connected to battery backup computer keeps humming along as if nothing happened?

How long will backup provide power to computer, approximately? I know it will vary depending on which backup model you have.

Reading here unless I'm overlooking it all I see is recharge time.

http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BX1500LCD&tab=models


Thanks!

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna





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Offline Maumelle Weather

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2011, 06:14:56 PM »
I have an APC XS 1300 UPS.  Got it at Bestbuy last year on sale for about $100 or so.  It will keep my weather computer running for about 1.5 hours or so.  I only have the computer itself connected to the battery backup side of the UPS.  The monitor is the surge protector side.
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Offline Dr Obbins

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2011, 06:23:29 PM »
I have done the 2 computers with one screen thing and 2 computers with 3 screens. The only switch that the local computer shop had was for 4 computers and 1 mouse, keyboard, monitor. The issue that I ran into was the switch needed to be set on the appropriate computer when it was booting up. For instance if you start computer #1 the switch needed to be set to computer #1. If the switch was set on computer #2, #1 did not find the keyboard/mouse during start-up so they did not work. Then the only thing to do was a hard shutdown and then restart. For me it turned out to be a big hassle. Maybe other switches work better.

 Finally I ended up biting the bullet and purchased a new Dell quad core i5 with 8 gig of ram. I sold the other 2 towers and one laptop to pay for it. It easily handles the weather station running 24/7 and doesn't skip a beat for everything else I use the computer for. The only thing I wish I'd done was upgrade the video card. If you are planning on doing any webcam/movie making, get a decent video card. 

As mentioned, get a UPS.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say switch needs to be on appropriate computer when booting.

Say one computer is on all night then the next day I turn on 2nd computer, switch now has to be switched to this one when booting? After 2nd computer is started can switch be turned from one to computer to the other?

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna

If the switch is not set to the computer that your are starting up, the keyboard/mouse is not connected to that computer. When a computer boots up, it looks for the keyboard/mouse, so if one is not connected, it can not find it.

For me there are two main reasons for a UPS. The first is power interruptions usually happen during more severe weather. This is the time that you want to be sure to gather the weather data. If you have a data logger, it can still record. The second is the UPS shuts down the computer correctly. Mind only lasts about 1/2 hour, then it will close all the programs and shut the computer down correctly. Once the power is restored, the UPS starts up the computer and the weather software also starts up. This way if I am at work and the power fails, the system takes care of it's self. The reason I chose a UPS with a 1/2 hour life is due to the nature of power issues here. Either the power failure is just a few second/minute blip. Or, because I am the last house on the line furthest from the substation, it is many hours before power is restored. For the long outages we have a generator.

Offline Bushman

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2011, 07:03:09 PM »
Run times here; pick your model.   http://www.apc.com/products/runtime_for_extendedruntime.cfm  I'd discount them by 10-15%.
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Offline Ugly Duckling

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2011, 07:26:25 PM »
Run times here; pick your model.   http://www.apc.com/products/runtime_for_extendedruntime.cfm  I'd discount them by 10-15%.

Thanks for trying but all the runtimes here appear to be zero minutes. Something is not working correct!

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna




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Offline Maumelle Weather

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2011, 07:47:54 PM »
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Offline mackbig

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2011, 10:59:55 PM »
Just bot this a few weeks ago as my weather pc. Impressed so far. Even has a serial port, although I recall you got the usb logger.

Acer Veriton VM275-ED5700W Desktop PC - Intel Pentium E5700 3.0GHz, 2GB DDR3, 320GB HDD, DVDRW, Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=476925&CatId=6
I think it was a good deal for $300.  I picked it up in store, and it ended up being a 5800 model which is a tad better same price.

Got this ups a few weeks before new pc. 
CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD 1000VA PURE Sinewave Series UPS - 10 Outlets, 600W, 1030 Joules, AVR
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=86640&CatId=234
The ups I feel is really for flashes here and there, and very short outages. And a controlled shutdown if longer than ups can handle.  I do see a point in going too big, as it still wont last the uber long outages.

Andrew

Andrew - Davis VP2+ 6163, serial weatherlink, wireless anemometer, running Weather Display.  Boltek PCI Stormtracker, Astrogenic Nexstorm, Strikestar - UNI, CWOP CW8618, GrLevel3, (Station 2 OS WMR968, VWS 13.01p09), Windows 7-64

Offline Bushman

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2011, 11:01:13 PM »
Run times here; pick your model.   http://www.apc.com/products/runtime_for_extendedruntime.cfm  I'd discount them by 10-15%.

Thanks for trying but all the runtimes here appear to be zero minutes. Something is not working correct!

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna




It works just fine but you have to know your voltage and how many watts your system draws.
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Offline kray1000

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2011, 11:30:15 PM »
Unless you plan to use a lot of heavyweight applications, a low-end used PC will probably work fine.

I am using one of the 13 billion Dell Optiplex machines in existence as a dedicated weather PC (no monitor, log in remotely).

Offline SlowModem

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2011, 11:38:37 PM »
Unless you plan to use a lot of heavyweight applications, a low-end used PC will probably work fine.

I am using one of the 13 billion Dell Optiplex machines in existence as a dedicated weather PC (no monitor, log in remotely).

I have a 10-year-old Dell Demsion Desktop with 40 Gig HD and 250 MB ram and 56 kbs modem running 24/7/365 with three weather stations and WUHU software that still chugs along.  So it doesn't take a Rolls Royce.
Greg Whitehead
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Offline Ugly Duckling

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2011, 07:51:26 AM »
Unless you plan to use a lot of heavyweight applications, a low-end used PC will probably work fine.

I am using one of the 13 billion Dell Optiplex machines in existence as a dedicated weather PC (no monitor, log in remotely).

I have a 10-year-old Dell Demsion Desktop with 40 Gig HD and 250 MB ram and 56 kbs modem running 24/7/365 with three weather stations and WUHU software that still chugs along.  So it doesn't take a Rolls Royce.

How can I possibly take advice from someone that does nothing more than bang their head 24/7?

When will it every end?

Typing these last words (when will it ever end) made me think of a song, can't remember exactly... When will they ever learn? maybe something about flowers? Old song don't really know it.

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna




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Offline gwwilk

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2011, 11:33:35 AM »
You've gotten lots of good advice, Marci Anna, but I'm going to pile on a little more--you get to decide its worth.

If you're not going to use your weather computer for much else, it can be a fairly low-end setup.  Unless you're used to building your own computers, buying one without a monitor is the best route to go, and it will actually be cheaper.  I'm very comfortable with Newegg, a vendor that has already been recommended in this thread.   They are very reliable, ship fast, and their prices usually can't be beat.  I usually look there first for computers and related items.  For instance, here is a very low-end HP dual-core Pentium 3.0 GHz processor with a 160 GB (adequate for a weather PC), but no serial port (do you need one?): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147482  Less than $300 gets you a recertified and/or generally underpowered machine.  My current primary weather computer is a Newegg purchased low-end Lenovo with which I'm very happy.  Here's a similar one to mine for $380, again without a serial port: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883108456  Here is an Acer that has a single-core 3.2 GHz CPU but with a serial port: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103374 for $300.  All of these also have free 3-day shipping.

KVM switches come in many different configurations and with different capabilities.  I've used them for many years--I have old functional PS2 VGA dual and quad KVM's without audio that I started with that are now just sitting in my junk closet.  I've lately moved to IOGear KVM's with DVI, audio, and USB mouse/keyboard because they generally will allow you to boot a computer that isn't switched to the monitor, keyboard, mouse, and audio.  They're designed to remember all of your monitor's capabilities and then trick the computer into booting up with the appropriate video settings.

Adding a second hard drive, internal or external, is a good way to provide backup for your data and your computer.  Windows 7 comes with decent backup capabilities that can take advantage of an additional HDD(hard disk drive).  A 3.5" form-factor 1 to 1.5 TB USB-attached external HDD is fairly inexpensive these days.  Other solutions would be using an off-site backup such as  Carbonite which my sister uses: http://www.carbonite.com/en/default or network attached storage with redundant RAID-configured HDD's.  RAID storage provides redundant data backup so if a backup drive fails it can be swapped out with a new one yet no data will be lost.  For $60 a year, Carbonite is probably the one of the most cost effective solutions, but restoring data over the internet rather than from a local HDD could be tedious.

Uninterruptable Power Supplies(UPS's) are also an essential ingredient of a reliable weather computer unless you go with a netbook or laptop because they already have a built-in backup battery.  Our power is generally very reliable here in NE, particularly if you have an underground feed like I do.  What WILL get you, though, is that temporary loss of power for a second or two while the grid recovers from an 'event'.  Other than planned outages such as for transmission equipment upgrades I've only experienced one extended outage in the past 20 years, and that resulted from the October 1997 snowstorm.  You need basic battery backup, but probably not much more.  All of my computers are on UPS's, and I do get tired of trotting off to Interstate Battery for replacement cells for them.  The cells generally last 3-4 yrs.

Have fun shopping!

Regards, Jerry Wilkins
gwwilk@gmail.com

Offline Ugly Duckling

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2011, 12:39:05 PM »
You've gotten lots of good advice, Marci Anna, but I'm going to pile on a little more--you get to decide its worth.

If you're not going to use your weather computer for much else, it can be a fairly low-end setup.  Unless you're used to building your own computers, buying one without a monitor is the best route to go, and it will actually be cheaper.  I'm very comfortable with Newegg, a vendor that has already been recommended in this thread.   They are very reliable, ship fast, and their prices usually can't be beat.  I usually look there first for computers and related items.  For instance, here is a very low-end HP dual-core Pentium 3.0 GHz processor with a 160 GB (adequate for a weather PC), but no serial port (do you need one?): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147482  Less than $300 gets you a recertified and/or generally underpowered machine.  My current primary weather computer is a Newegg purchased low-end Lenovo with which I'm very happy.  Here's a similar one to mine for $380, again without a serial port: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883108456  Here is an Acer that has a single-core 3.2 GHz CPU but with a serial port: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103374 for $300.  All of these also have free 3-day shipping.

KVM switches come in many different configurations and with different capabilities.  I've used them for many years--I have old functional PS2 VGA dual and quad KVM's without audio that I started with that are now just sitting in my junk closet.  I've lately moved to IOGear KVM's with DVI, audio, and USB mouse/keyboard because they generally will allow you to boot a computer that isn't switched to the monitor, keyboard, mouse, and audio.  They're designed to remember all of your monitor's capabilities and then trick the computer into booting up with the appropriate video settings.

Adding a second hard drive, internal or external, is a good way to provide backup for your data and your computer.  Windows 7 comes with decent backup capabilities that can take advantage of an additional HDD(hard disk drive).  A 3.5" form-factor 1 to 1.5 TB USB-attached external HDD is fairly inexpensive these days.  Other solutions would be using an off-site backup such as  Carbonite which my sister uses: http://www.carbonite.com/en/default or network attached storage with redundant RAID-configured HDD's.  RAID storage provides redundant data backup so if a backup drive fails it can be swapped out with a new one yet no data will be lost.  For $60 a year, Carbonite is probably the one of the most cost effective solutions, but restoring data over the internet rather than from a local HDD could be tedious.

Uninterruptable Power Supplies(UPS's) are also an essential ingredient of a reliable weather computer unless you go with a netbook or laptop because they already have a built-in backup battery.  Our power is generally very reliable here in NE, particularly if you have an underground feed like I do.  What WILL get you, though, is that temporary loss of power for a second or two while the grid recovers from an 'event'.  Other than planned outages such as for transmission equipment upgrades I've only experienced one extended outage in the past 20 years, and that resulted from the October 1997 snowstorm.  You need basic battery backup, but probably not much more.  All of my computers are on UPS's, and I do get tired of trotting off to Interstate Battery for replacement cells for them.  The cells generally last 3-4 yrs.

Have fun shopping!




Thank you so much for your advice. Before I began reading I didn't look to see who it was from but when I read 'here in NE' I first thought its someone in the northeast as they like to say they live in our NE lol anyway I then realized it from you over there in Lincoln.

Have you had experience dealing with warranties on computers purchased at Newegg? I know the warranty would be through whatever brand of computer purchased. Newegg prices are less than Dell where I purchased my last 3 computers.

I previously said I wanted to use one monitor/one keyboard/mouse with 2 computers but have about decided to have 2 monitors with one keyboard/mouse. I just need to find a new computer table. Should be able to find what I need on Craigslist. Last weekend I saw exactly what I wanted but I was too late, it was already sold. Good items that are priced good seem to sell fast on Craigslist.

I need another monitor. Last winter when much of my things were stolen I bought a monitor at NFM at a good price. I should check Neweggs prices on monitors.

I had to Google UPS to get the exact meaning (uninterruptible power supply or source) I heard it many times but until now I never took the time to check the meaning. A backup power supply is something I will be getting.

I thank you and everyone else for your advice. I always read each and every word and check every link provided. I appreciate it very much!

Thank you!

Many Happy Weather Changes,

Marci Anna



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Offline Dr Obbins

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Re: Could use help selecting new weather computer
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2011, 12:58:45 PM »
I think you have the bug bad. Before long your work station will look like mine used to: