Author Topic: VWS hanging  (Read 8096 times)

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Offline weathergirl

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VWS hanging
« on: May 23, 2007, 06:05:49 PM »
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to close VWS after it has locked up or hung?  I know I have rehashed an old topic, but I'm still having difficulty, and even StartWatch takes forever to shut VWS down :(
Ann-Marie
Beamsville, Ontario, Canada

Offline capeweather

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2007, 06:37:36 PM »
ctrl alt del? End the process and restart...  :?

Chris
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Offline weathergirl

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2007, 07:40:13 PM »
If it's minimized to the tray and I can't maximize it, will this still work?
Ann-Marie
Beamsville, Ontario, Canada

Offline up10ad N9RJH

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2007, 08:39:56 PM »
Yes, it will.  Another way is to right-click on the taskbar and open Task Manager.  Go to the Processes tab and right-click vws, then select kill process from the pop-up menu.
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Offline weathergirl

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2007, 09:17:38 PM »
Ctrl-alt-delete does not work, and ending it from Task Manger does nothing either, it's being very stubborn :(
Ann-Marie
Beamsville, Ontario, Canada

Offline weathergirl

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2007, 09:34:39 AM »
Sorry for being such a pain about this.  I've tried other scripts, such as kill.exe, and Process Explorer as well, and none of them work.
Ann-Marie
Beamsville, Ontario, Canada

Offline racenet

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2007, 10:52:01 AM »
Ann-Marie,

Try this one: http://www.nhweatherdata.com/files/tcpview.zip
I have used this a long time and it has never failed to kill a process. Well, unless the whole OS has crashed and then nothing will handle that very well.  :wink:


Bob
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Offline weathergirl

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2007, 11:35:06 AM »
Thanks Bob. When VWS hangs again, I'll use your utility and let you know what happens :)
Ann-Marie
Beamsville, Ontario, Canada

Offline up10ad N9RJH

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2007, 12:21:12 AM »
Sorry Ann-Marie, I've never had VWS lock so hard it wouldn't kill easily. You are right, yours is being verrrry stubborn!  :evil:
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Offline weathergirl

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2007, 03:53:22 PM »
So VWS was hanging again today. It's sitting stuck in the tray, I can't maximize it at all. It's not showing up in TCPView, maybe because StartWatch says it is stopping it, but it's taking forever again.
Ann-Marie
Beamsville, Ontario, Canada

Offline capeweather

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2007, 04:11:06 PM »
Try running it w/o startwatch on and see what happens. Maybe there is some type of conflict.

Chris
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Offline weathergirl

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2007, 05:50:58 PM »
Done.  After I restarted my computer and used StartWatch as usual to start up my weather programs, I had it stop monitoring VWS. We'll see what happens.
Ann-Marie
Beamsville, Ontario, Canada

Offline Mark / Ohio

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2007, 08:00:29 PM »
Your not by chance running one of the later releases of Zone Alarm firewall that has the anti-spyware bundled with it are you?

For some reason those more recent ZA versions would keep StartWatch from shutting down any program on both of my computers.  It would just hang trying to restart them.
Mark 
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Offline weathergirl

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2007, 08:06:11 PM »
No, Mark, no Zone Alarm, just Windows firewall and Norton Antivirus.
Ann-Marie
Beamsville, Ontario, Canada

Offline ELDoradoWx

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2007, 02:22:03 AM »
Quote from: "weathergirl"
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to close VWS after it has locked up or hung?  


This might be a very silly question, but how do you go about closing it down when it is working right, and not stuck or froze?

Personally I rapidly double click the vws icon in the system tray (next to the clock). Then when it comes up I just hit the X in the top right to close it down. Is this what you do?

On occasion when I double click, it does not come up right away. If I double click again before it came up, it will then get corrupted and freeze. So when it doesn't come up right away, I wait a little bit, and it can come up as long as 30 to 40 seconds later.

I am guessing that you most likely already know all of this, but I just didn't want to take it for granted.
-Danny
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Offline weathergirl

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2007, 09:49:32 AM »
Yes, I do close it usually by clicking on the "X", but when it was locked or hung, it didn't want to come up when I clicked on the system tray icon, no matter what I did or how long I waited. So just to let everyone know, I have been starting VWS manually, and not using StartWatch to monitor it, and I've had no problems with VWS hanging or locking at all :)
Ann-Marie
Beamsville, Ontario, Canada

Offline tinplate

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2007, 06:35:17 PM »
The method StartWatch uses to monitor an application should not affect the monitored application at all. StartWatch uses the standard method of sending the application a do-nothing message, a technique which has been in Windows for ages, and is even used by Windows. If this was the case, it would be a very sloppy flaw on the part of the monitored application. I don't think that's what's happening though. I think the more likely explanation is that VWS is routinely entering unresponsive states that StartWatch is interpreting as it being hung, so it is trying to close and restart it.

There are two ways for one program to close another. The polite way is to send the program's main window a "Close" message. Unfortunately, windows provides no mechanism for finding out what the main window of a program is. The programming tool that was used to create VWS uses an uncommon windowing strategy. It creates a score of windows, most of them not visible. Programs can make invisible windows by setting their "hidden" flag, or by leaving them visible but making their position way off the visible screen, or making their size 1 pixel by 1 pixel. Since StartWatch has to be able to deal with any program, it has a rather involved algorithm for sorting through all the windows that belong to a program to try and identify the "Main Window", i.e. the one you send the close message. Because VWS is a little odd, I even have some code in there specifically for handling it. Sending the message to the wrong window can put the program into an open but not functioning "zombie" state.

The result is that it's not always possible to locate the right window to talk to, and even if you do, the program may simply ignore the message. That is where the second method comes in. That is killing or terminating the program. This is not polite, but much more effective. But even that doesn't always work. Because of an unfortunate design decision by Microsoft (since fixed in Vista) if a program hangs while waiting on certain calls into drivers (such as communication), then the program can become unkillable by any method.

StartWatch uses the first method, but only uses the second method if given the permission in the configuration where you set the monitor options for a particular program in StartWatch.

If StartWatch is detecting VWS as hung when it really isn't, you can use the slider control in the configuration to make it less sensitive in this respect. In other words a program would have to be unresponsive for a longer period of time before it's considered "hung". Ideally, if a program is written using best practices, it shouldn't ever become unresponsive for more than a couple seconds. But in reality, many (most?) programs don't go to the extra trouble to meet that standard. That said, a program that's unresponsive for a long period of time (more than 20 or 30 seconds) is doing their users no favors just to save a little programming effort.

Enabling the option that lets StartWatch kill a program that can't be closed should reduce the situation of a zombie program (half stopped) which it sounds like you were experiencing.

As a test, I would be interested in finding out what happens if you go back to having StartWatch monitoring VWS, but uncheck the hang detection for VWS. If this doesn't cause VWS to get in the hung state you originally described, then you could try enabling hang detection but use the slider to decrease the sensitivity, and also enable the option to kill the program if it can't be closed.

Steve
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Offline weathergirl

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Re: VWS hanging
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2007, 08:15:56 PM »
Thanks for your explanation, Steve. I never thought that StartWatch was at fault, I always believed it was doing its job, it's VWS that I have found frustrating. I'll do what you have suggested and see what happens.
Ann-Marie
Beamsville, Ontario, Canada