Topic: Replace the VP2 battery....now?

[Intheswamp]

Howdy everybody.  Still alive and kickin'.  Hope ya'll are doing as so, as well.

Two or three years ago I ordered a couple of batteries to go in my VP2 ISS.  I figured it was about time.  Some of you said that ya'lls' batteries lasted much longer than 2-3 years.  I never did replace the battery, and well, I just looked and mine is showing 4.19v now...not bad for 6-1/2 years, eh?  I'm wondering, though, if I should go ahead and replace it....that is if the ones I bought are still good.<grin>

Apparently the voltage is still sufficient, but I'm wondering about possibly the heat and cold causing the shell to expand and contract and possibly causing leakage. What do ya'll think?  Let'er ride another 6-1/2 years?

[SnowHiker]

Howdy everybody.  Still alive and kickin'.  Hope ya'll are doing as so, as well.

Two or three years ago I ordered a couple of batteries to go in my VP2 ISS.  I figured it was about time.  Some of you said that ya'lls' batteries lasted much longer than 2-3 years.  I never did replace the battery, and well, I just looked and mine is showing 4.19v now...not bad for 6-1/2 years, eh?  I'm wondering, though, if I should go ahead and replace it....that is if the ones I bought are still good.<grin>

Apparently the voltage is still sufficient, but I'm wondering about possibly the heat and cold causing the shell to expand and contract and possibly causing leakage. What do ya'll think?  Let'er ride another 6-1/2 years?

4.19V?

I think going on seven years I would replace the batteries in both your console and the ISS.  I'm not sure where you're reading 4.19V, but I'm guessing that's on the console and not the ISS, and if so then that's very low.

[Intheswamp]

<chuckle>  Well, I've told the gang before that if BeeWeather goes down that it'll take the group to get it back up again because Cumulus and the VP2 are like the ultimate auto-pilot system.  Set it and forget it and it just runs and runs and runs.  I'm afraid that I've forgotten so much since I installed it that I'd be the poster child for the "Deer-in-the Headlights" look.

Having said that, I was completely wrong on the voltage...that was for the console.   

Yeah, I think I'll probably go ahead and replace the batteries in the console and ISS.  Also, I've gotta get around to *finally* replacing the temp/humidity sensor and upgrade the rain gauge...the new ones are still sitting in the boxes.<sigh>

Thanks for jarring my gourd into realizing I was talking about the wrong batteries...sometimes I wonder about myself. 

[miraculon]

The CR123A in the ISS should be about 3.3V when new. Anything less than 2.85V will result in the "low battery on station X" warning, at or below 2.7V will result in no operation from the battery. (this is based on some testing I did years ago)

The "C" cells in the console would be about 1.6V each when new, or indicate about 4.8V on the console diagnostic screen. If your batteries have been evenly discharged, each C cell would be at about 1.39V which is getting low.

You should see something like "Low Console Battery" (I don't recall the exact phrase) when low. Also, the backlight will not come on when the batteries are low and no power supply is used. That is another indication that they need to be replaced.

I typed this before your most recent post..

Greg H.

[Intheswamp]

Thanks, for the reply, Greg.  I think I have replaced the console's batteries...probably a couple of years ago.  The console is a/c powered so the batteries are really just a "backup" power source.  But still, I don't won't them leaking so I need to check.  So far I haven't gotten any battery warnings, but simply for the unlikely issue of the ISS lithium battery leaking I think I will go ahead and replace it.  I'll check the old CR123A and see what it is reading.  I think I'll check the "new" ones, too...they've been sitting in box for 2-3 years at the minimum.  Time does have a way of getting away from us, eh?

Ed

[miraculon]

Time does have a way of getting away from us, eh?

Does it ever. Lithium batteries have a very long shelf life when unloaded. (like in the package...)

At only 2 or 3 years old, the unused ones are probably fine. Checking them to be sure is a good idea.

Greg H.

[Intheswamp]

 

[DaleReid]

A couple of thoughts:

I just swapped out my VP (1 or original) battery on the ISS, the ubiquitous 123 cell.

It wasn't transmitting, and I had 2.5 volts on the lithium cell.

Not sure why, but the supercap is either bad or the solar panel is kapoot.

There fore I can verify that if you are low on voltage, all stuff shuts down, at least with the first issue of the VP.

Secondly, and this is my opinion ONLY,  but with anecdotal reasons to follow, I would never ever buy, nor use even if given to me, a Duracell manufacturered battery.

Over the last 5 or 7 years a bunch of us amateur operators have our accumulated battery powered multimeters, thermometers, consoles, remotes and what have you. 

I, and others, had been buying duracells based on reputation, and found that we just didn't get around to pulling the batteries if the item weren't being used for awhile.  And in some cases, things were tossed in a drawer and forgotten, to be fair.

Well over 90% of those Duracells were corroded and either hard to clean the instrument up or actually ruined it so it had to be tossed.  The RayOVac and the Energizers had one leak out of literally 40 or more installations, and since changing to pure energizers (unless Menards has RayOVac on sale and the battery would be used relatively fast such as decorative flickering candles in the holidays, etc) there have been none with leaks.  Even among those where an energizer had been in for as long or longer than the Duracells which had leaked, no damage

I know one of the hams is very vocal about his findings, and as he has mentioned the damage and leaks, many other locals have echoed his observation.

I would think that technology would be such that any brand should be good.  It is as if you buy apples and one orchard goes soft and rots in days, with another orchard's lasting for weeks if not months.

Take the one experience for what it is worth, but having cleaned the old VP ISS carefully when a Duracell 123 had leaked but not caused physical damage that wasn't fixable, I'm not using that brand.

Dale

[miraculon]

It wasn't transmitting, and I had 2.5 volts on the lithium cell.

Greg H.

[Intheswamp]

I appreciate that post, Dale.  I've used Duracells for a long, long time.  They perform well for me, though I have had a few to leak on me but to be honest I've had other brands leak, too, if left too long in an unused piece of equipment.  Maybe I'll try some different ones when I restock my alkalines.

[DaleReid]

As I said, one would think that the technology used by all the manufacturers would be similar, and for all I know, one place makes them for everyone and just places different labels on them (pure speculation and sort of goes against logic, really).

It may have been a bad run of luck.  I used to seek out Duracell and that is the brand that for a decade or more they used at work.  However, if I now find a forgotten or misplaced battery powered device, I make some bets on what is in it, and if it is even functional after opening.  the majority of the time if it is a duracell, not only is it dead, but has leaked.

I know the best and recommended action is to remove cells if  you aren't going to use the device, but then again I'm supposed to floss daily, too.

[Intheswamp]

You don't floss daily?!!!!     I most always floss...right before a dentist visit...sometimes....well, really not often.

Yeah, I know about the "I'll take'em out later..." syndrome.  The thing about finding Duracells in the set aside equipment could go back to what you mentioned in your post..."I used to seek out Duracell and that is the brand that for a decade or more they used at work."...the past is catching of with you (and me). 

I might have to sacrifice a cheap flashlight for an experiment.  Put a mix of Duracell, Energizer, and maybe Rayovac with a generic/store-brand in it.  Problem is, I'm thinking about a cheap AA cell flashlight...maybe have to try two flashlights.  Turn'em on and let'em die a terrible death...then leave'em sitting there.  I wonder how long it would take them to start leaking...maybe a monthly or bi-monthly inspection.  Might be an interesting experiment...fast-paced and exciting, too!!!   I could make it boring and just discharge the batteries and put them in a ziplock bag but where's the fun in that? 

[Intheswamp]

 
I picked up some Kirkland Signature AA's yesterday at our local (65 miles from home) Costco.  We were getting low on alkaline AA's so I figured why not.  I did a quick search on my phone and found a review that had them rated at the top of the pile of brands, second behind Duracell.  Later on I did some more looking at got to reading about them being bad about leaking!<sigh>  Of course, you can read 100 reviewers and get 110 reviews, but the posts regarding the Kirklands being bad about leaking kind of worries me.  I seriously thinking about leaving the pack of batteries intact and return them on the next trip.  Anybody had any experience with the Kirklands?

I'm beginning to lean more and more to going 100% Eneloop.  I use them in my speedlights, thermostat, and remote controls and they work well.  Now, after thinking about it I'm using less small AA flashlights than in the past.  Portable lights are usually a rechargeable spotlight or a larger C-sized 3 or 4 cell light.  The smaller cheap AA flashlights that I have are mostly for incidental/back-up use (perfect environment for a leaker...and maybe for some lithiums(?)). 

I would still need to deal with the VP2, but I could handle the console with some of the C-size spacers and AA Eneloops, leaving only the ISS to figure out.  Neither of those are battery hogs...apparently.  Just don't want any leaks.

Yeah, those Kirklands are going back.

[miraculon]

I suppose that it doesn't get cold enough in Alabama to worry about it, but up here in Michigan I must use Lithium batteries. I have a Meade thermometer that uses AA in the remote sensors and I have Lithium cells out there. Of course the CR123As are Lithium.

Greg H.

[galfert]

I've seen Duracells leak. I think any alkaline will leak if you leave them in. Batteries usually leak where their status is not monitored like on devices that are seldom used. On a weather station you should be alerted to the low battery situation before the leak occurs. Or better yet be proactive and change them out before they are depleted.

[92merc]

I replace my ISS battery, and secondary anemometer transmitter battery every summer.  Just a part of my once a year cleaning and check over.  Especially since I have to go up on the roof.  I don't want something to crap out in the winter.  Batteries are cheap. 

[CW2274]

Phffft...I got 12 years outta my original Duracell that came with my ISS when I bought it. Granted it was down to 2.3 volts, but the ISS never skipped a beat and the battery was dry as a bone. There's an Energizer in it now. My anny battery is about 6 years old as well, it's also a Duracell.

[CW2274]

Phffft...I got 12 years outta my original Duracell that came with my ISS when I bought it. Granted it was down to 2.3 volts, but the ISS never skipped a beat and the battery was dry as a bone. There's an Energizer in it now. My anny battery is about 6 years old as well, it's also a Duracell.

Ahhh, but you (and I) are in high desert NOT in snowy areas.

Oh, of course! Having sunny/sunny-ish skies 98% of the year means having a fully charged super cap practically everyday...which is also original.

[Intheswamp]

And, me...I'm down here in the enchanted land of humidity...south Alabama.

We do have sunshine, though,....it's yesterday's, of course, but....   

[Aardvark]

Tightwads.   I buy about a dozen batteries from Batteryjunction.  I get the Titanium Innovations  or Surfire for about $1.50 each.  I change my batteries as needed but in the ISS twice a year.  At the end of winter and the end of summer whether or not  there is a need.  At 3 dollars a year, that is pretty cheap. I also keep a chart on Microsoft OneNote  to see if I am noticing a station needing a change more than not.     [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[pabloako]

Thanks for the reminder. I had completely forgotten about the batteries.
Mine are now 6 years old, so I will give them a change today.  The original Duracell have not missed a beat,  plus we had a 4 hour power failure last weekend in our first storm of the season.


 

[Aardvark]

Even if the batteries are not used in the devices, they still degrade and should be replaced

[Intheswamp]

Yep, I agree that unused batteries still degrade over time, hence the battery you find all corroded in the back of the drawer that has spilled over onto other things. 

I still haven't replaced the ISS's battery nor the console's batteries but I punched the button on 16 AA Eneloops this morning.  I probably should've waited till Black Friday but I got them netted down to around $1.32 each through Amazon.  That's about as cheap as I've seen them in a while.  Whatever the case, the brick of Kirklands are going back to Costco and we're waving bye to Duracell AA's.  Should've done this a few years ago.

[galfert]

Not sure about the performance of Eneloop (rechargeable NiMH) with a weather station. Ambient Weather does not recommend them and it is something that is expressed and warned against using in product documentation and their website. Not sure how rechargables would fair with Davis and what their stand is on rechargable batteries. The voltage of a rechargable battery such as Eneloop is 1.2V and that is significantly lower than a standard Alkaline or Lithium battery that puts out 1.5V. Typically when using standard batteries, when they get used up and drop to 1.2V is when they need to be replaced. Rechargable batteries work well with many devices but not as well for others. Eneloop batteries may be the best rechargable batteries you can get but they are still just 1.2V NiMH.*

Well Eneloop used to be the best I should say. Starting around June this year there are now rechargable batteries that are Lithium-ion rechargable that have built in circuitry to bring down 3.7V of Lithium-ion to 1.5V so that they can be made in normal battery sizes AAA, AA, C, D...etc.
These new recharables are expensive and just coming out to market from a few manufactures. Using these then I would say that the cautions about what we considered shortcomings of rechargable batteries in standard sizes will change. But the verdict is still out on these new type of rechargables as they are that new. But I think it looks promising.

[galfert]

I've not seen a recharable (NiMH or NiCd) that will put out greater than 1.2V. It may be able to be charged to 1.5V or 1.7V but that is charging voltage only. Then when used for output it will initially but only very briefly put out 1.5 or so then very rapidly drop and then steadily put out 1.2V until it depletes. Therefor it is inaccurate to say that a recharable (NiMH or NiCd) is rated at anything but 1.2V.