Topic: WS-2902A and WS-2000 need to be on Same Network Subnet for WiFi Updates

[kbellis]

When updating both displays, WS-2902A and WS-2000 need to be on Same Network Subnet for WiFi Updates - Title Updated 20190122 (VKB)

Previously, my report to Ambient "Problems After WS-2000 WiFi Update to 4.0." dated 20190116 10:32 UTC-5 (and posted on wxforum.net, WiFi Issues After WS-2000 Updates) regarded WiFi issues, specifically issues related to Ambient's WiFi firmware updates, which issues in summary were as follows:

The firmware for the WS-2000's Display Tablet gets updated using an SD card as outlined on Ambient page: https://www.ambientweather.com/amwewsfidoce.html

The firmware for the WiFi gets updated using an Android device running Ambient's awnet v1.1.9 (Beta - I'm a beta tester) app available from the Play Store at:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dtston.ambienttoolplus

The awnet app is used to update the WiFi firmware for the WS-2000 Display Tablet. It is also used to update both the Console Display and the WiFi for the WS-2902A.

The problem which presented and was discussed in "Problems After WS-2000 WiFi Update to 4.0." was likely caused by the two displays each being configured to individual access points, each with a separate SSID and password. I say likely caused, because of the different approach I used today, and the success to update both the WS-2000 and the WS-2902A with the release of the firmware v4.1.0.

Today's approach involved first updating the WS-2902A from v4.0.9 to 4.1.0 which was connected to SSID (panocea). This was very easily done without issue in less than a minute. The WS-2000 which was connected to SSID (ATMOCOM_327466) was not seen by the awnet app, just as was the case in "Problems After WS-2000 WiFi Update to 4.0.". I then disconnected it from SSID (ATMOCOM_327466) and then connected it to SSID (panocea), waited a few seconds for the WS-2000 WiFi connectivity icons to reappear and then tried adding the device in the awnet app. Almost immediately the second device was recognized, its firmware was shown, and it also showed that an update of its firmware was available. The WS-2000 Display Tablet was similarly updated to v4.1.0 in less than a minute without issue. Following the update of the WS-2000, I power cycled both the Display Tablet and then the Atmocom device. Both devices are sending data without any problems.

Begin Update 20190122 With many thanks to George Alfert!

On 1/21/2019 11:18 PM, George Alfert wrote:
The title to your thread regarding needing the same AP is not 100% accurate. It isn't so much that devices need to be on the same AP for WiFi updates, rather that they need to be on the same network subnet to see each other. You can configure different AP and still be on the same network subnet. But the ATMOCOM either makes a separate subnet or it has a host (your console) off in a DMZ. Either way it isn't reachable on your network. There is no problem with separate AP (different SSID and Key passcode) if they are connected to the same subnet, like you would do in the case of a WiFi extender (wired or wireless back haul), or mesh node.

Just correct it to say that if you have hung your console behind some other network device in order to exploit man-in-the-middle network sniffing, then you won't see your console on the network unless you put yourself in that subnet.

End Update 20190122


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An annoying requisite of the awnet app when adding/ scanning for an Ambient device is that the Android device's Location must be turned on; i.e., high precision GPS. The need to have GPS for a tabletop weather station display (Tablet/ Console), something never intended to go outdoors where GPS signals are intended to be received, makes no sense. Regardless, the only way that awnet will add a weather device is to turn on Location.

The other variable, that I'll try and remember with Ambient's next firmware release, is related to the network that the Android device; e.g., Moto phone/ Nexus tablet, was connected to, which in all previous and current tests has been the same SSID (panocea) as the WS-2902A. The future test, when a firmware update becomes available, would involve leaving the two consoles connected to their separate access points and then change the Android device's WiFi connection to match the same SSID as the display being updated.

End Report.

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Kelly

[galfert]

Very nice write up. I can also see this being a potential issue for those people that set up a Raspberry Pi and run WeeWx and the Interceptor driver. The premise is the same. To update you'll need to put your awnet app device in the same network subnet physically.

And for even more completeness it is actually possible to be on different subnets and still see another network device but only if network routes to each subnet have been defined on the router or layer 3 switch and if proper access rights are given when using VLANs. Yep I know this is above most home network weather hobbyists. Saying that you need to be in the same subnet or no workie is like saying nobody can legally drive above the speed limit, but there are exceptions like if you are a police officer with proper cause, or in the case of different subnets the exception is you have advanced hardware and/or networking skills to enable traffic between subnets.

[Ski Pro 3]

An annoying requisite of the awnet app when adding/ scanning for an Ambient device is that the Android device's Location must be turned on; i.e., high precision GPS. The need to have GPS for a tabletop weather station display (Tablet/ Console), something never intended to go outdoors where GPS signals are intended to be received, makes no sense. Regardless, the only way that awnet will add a weather device is to turn on Location.

I don't think this is true; that the android device used to run awnet app needs to have GPS.  My 'smart phone' does not have GPS.  I confirm this by trying to load a compass app.  Compass apps must have a GPS source in the android device.  Every time I tried to load a compass app, it told me that it could not as I do not have a GPS on my device.  I've searched the device to see if it was turned off, hidden etc.  I just does not exist.
However, when I loaded awnet it discovered my WS-2000 and I can utilize all it's features, especially the ability to be notified that my firmware is out of date and that a newer firmware is available.  I've updated my WS-2000 wifi firmware a few times now with no problems.  I just have to remember to turn on the wifi for my 'smart phone'. 

[kbellis]

Are you saying that when you added a device through the awnet app, be it the WS-2000 or Ws-2902A, the app didn't prompt you to turn on Location? Had that been the case, could it possibly be that you had Location turned on to begin with? I always have Location turned off as it saves a good deal on the battery. Do you see Location under your phone's settings? Maybe something like:

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I don't think this is true; that the android device used to run awnet app needs to have GPS.  My 'smart phone' does not have GPS.  I confirm this by trying to load a compass app.  Compass apps must have a GPS source in the android device.  Every time I tried to load a compass app, it told me that it could not as I do not have a GPS on my device.  I've searched the device to see if it was turned off, hidden etc.  I just does not exist.
However, when I loaded awnet it discovered my WS-2000 and I can utilize all it's features, especially the ability to be notified that my firmware is out of date and that a newer firmware is available.  I've updated my WS-2000 wifi firmware a few times now with no problems.  I just have to remember to turn on the wifi for my 'smart phone'.

[Ski Pro 3]

I don't know if I have 'location' on/off or if it is even an option on my phone. I only know it doesn't have GPS capability.  I will check the phone though and get back to you...
I do know when trying to install a compass app, it told me I did not have GPS.

[kbellis]

If your device doesn't have a magnetometer chip (sometimes combined with an accelerometer), then you won't be able to install compass apps. The compass app relies on the magnetometer to sense magnetic fields and applies a world magnetic model which uses the device's location in determining what magnetic declination needs to be applied for that locality.

Locations on your device can be determined using more than one method, but most typically, there is some form of onboard GPS, even on my economy class Moto E4 Plus (XT1770). In other cases, cell triangulation may be employed for determining location. At the bottom of the list would be a mapped IP location, though I can't say if the awnet app would be placated by either means. All I know for sure is I had to turn Location on in order to add a weather station display device using awnet.

I don't know if I have 'location' on/off or if it is even an option on my phone. I only know it doesn't have GPS capability.  I will check the phone though and get back to you...
I do know when trying to install a compass app, it told me I did not have GPS.

[Ski Pro 3]

Here is the phone I bought in October 2015 and used to update the wifi firmware of my WS-2000.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YCTIL88/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

On the phone is Location.  It is turned on.  It is in 'battery saving' mode.  When I click on that, it defines Battery Saving mode as;
"Use Wifi and mobile networks to determine location."
HOWEVER:
It also has two other modes;
1. High Accuracy
2. Device Only
High Accuracy is defined as; "Use GPS, Wi-Fi and mobile networks to determine location"
Device Only is defined as, "Use GPS to determine your location"

But, like I mentioned, I have mine set for Battery Saving.  While the phone is capable of GPS, it's not turned on it seems via this setting. If I do turn it on, I bet I can download a compass app.