Author Topic: Rain sensor going crazy  (Read 2840 times)

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Offline SBWX

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Rain sensor going crazy
« on: October 05, 2016, 10:06:53 PM »
Have a VP2 and around 11AM today the rain sensor says getting 100-300mm an hour and 1000mm of rain in last 6 hours. It was not and is not raining. My console is displaying its raining cats and dogs - you think :) I checked the bucket etc and sensor and all looks OK. Would it be the read switch? The unit has been running 100% for over 3 years until today. I ended up removing the data cable for the rain sensor until I get this resolved. I am thinking maybe just send the whole unit to Davis and get it refurbished. Any help would be great.

Just edited this post as the console is still showing it is raining and the amount of mm is growing fast. I do not get it as I have disconnected the sensor

Thanks


« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 10:30:24 PM by SBWX »

Offline miraculon

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2016, 08:18:30 AM »
It could be the reed switch. Try unplugging the RAIN connector and verify that it stops. (to rule out something else)

Greg H.


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Offline Aardvark

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2016, 10:47:31 AM »
if it isn't the reed switch, it could be a frayed wire.  I agree, go to the ISS and unplug the rain sensor and see if that makes a difference.  If it doesn't the problem is in the circuit board of the station.   Also.. while you are out there, take off the rain cone and see if the tipping pan has any thing that could be moving it back and forth, such as critters

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2016, 10:47:46 AM »
If you actually disconnected the rain bucket cable and its still raining I'm stumped. You may want to try and replace battery inside ISS and see if it stops.
Randy

Offline moehoward4

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2016, 11:03:53 AM »
Do a ' reset ' on the console (follow the instructions).
3 Davis set-ups...which one ya wanna talk about? And I got ALL my manuals....

Offline johnd

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2016, 11:24:29 AM »
Are you _sure_ that there's no moisture in the RJ11 socket into which the rain collector lead normally plugs. Dampness in the socket is one of the classic causes of unexplained rainfall readings - the droplets can short across the TBR contacts.
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Offline Aardvark

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2016, 11:39:59 AM »
What kind of weather station is this?

Offline WxLover16

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2016, 03:50:37 PM »
What kind of weather station is this?

He said VP2, dunno if it's fan aspirated or not though.
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Offline SBWX

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2016, 06:04:43 PM »
My unit is a VP2+ Pro wireless, fan aspirated, Weather Link IP and wireless Envoy.
I disconnected the cable from the rain sensor to the transmitter, and for 5 hours it continued recording 200MM per hour till midnight. It is now says 0 rain and 0 rain recorded as it should as disconnected.

I spoke to Davis support this morning and suggested it will probably need a new transmitter board($60) as he stated it sounds like it is getting flakey.  I did ask if I remove the battery if it would reset and stated yes. When I get home from work I will insure the connection is dry and plug back in the rain sensor and then see what happens after removing and putting the battery back in.

It is for sure the transmitter board issue as both the Envoy and console reported the same. My station is online at http://www.weatherlink.com/user/sbwx and you can see almost 2100mm of rain yesterday.

Cheers
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 06:06:32 PM by SBWX »

Offline SBWX

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2016, 10:40:03 AM »
I reset the unit yesterday and insured contacts were dry and reconnected the rain sensor. It was pouring rain at the time. The unit worked fine for about 7 hours and now again the rain sensor is recording about 280MM per hour and it has stopped raining.  I will replace the battery today(WeatherLink reads battery status as fine and at 4.7Volts) and if that does not resolve I guess I will get a refurb done and was quoted $200. Since the unit is older(about 5 years) will they upgrade all sensors if I request them and pay for those or is the only way to get new sensors is to buy a new unit or parts separately?

Thanks

Offline johnd

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2016, 10:56:56 AM »
OK, but you're just really restating the original post. So:

1. Does the rain rate reading stop if you disconnect the rain gauge?

2. Given that it's been raining again, then eg if the SIM compartment cover was leaking (eg not replaced squarely or rubber seal perished) the rain gauge socket could have got wet all over again.

Not saying these are the causes, but just things to double-check before concluding that it's a SIM board fault (a very rare cause of constant rain reporting IME).
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2016, 11:13:03 AM »
What do the console diagnostics say, regarding the quality of reception, etc.?

Offline miraculon

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2016, 11:33:41 AM »
Quote
(WeatherLink reads battery status as fine and at 4.7Volts)

This sounds like the console battery. You want to check the "Alarm and Battery Status" under "Window" in Weatherlink. (a message on the console would appear as well if the ISS battery was bad.)

Greg H.




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Offline Aardvark

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2016, 05:29:03 PM »
Send it in for refurbish if that is the way to go.   You can also get the ISS unit from Scaled  Instruments and replace it instead.    I would go for the new stuff if it were me and definitely, quit farting around on this site testing this and that when the experts told you what was wrong with it.


Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2016, 02:51:12 AM »
Send it in for refurbish if that is the way to go.   You can also get the ISS unit from Scaled  Instruments and replace it instead.    I would go for the new stuff if it were me and definitely, quit farting around on this site testing this and that when the experts told you what was wrong with it.
Aardvark, some people like to test and find out what is going on with their equipment, and to try to fix it rather than just throw money at it.  You obviously have plenty of money to toss around (you must be in public service), but not everyone does.  Some people would also like to avoid the down time that is involved in sending the unit in or ordering new parts.

I see part of this forum to be to learn what may cause problems, so it may be of help to others who may run in to similar problems and who may be interested in trying to fix the problem if possible, or who want to try to avoid having the same problems, rather than just automatically throw money at it.  Or are just plain curious about what is going on.

Why do you even bother reading these threads if it bothers you so much that people don't just automatically go out and buy new parts or send everything to Davis at the first sign of trouble like you do?  I think people are smart enough to determine for themselves at what point they are wasting their time and when to send it in or buy new parts.  If people choose not to listen to the "experts", by which I assume you mean yourself, that's their business.  You did your job by telling them what's wrong, if they're too stupid to listen to you, maybe it would be best to move on.

By the way, I'm still running an original VP that's over 12 years old and working perfectly.  But then, I guess I'm not as rich as you are, and my time isn't as precious as yours, so I can afford to waste it and spend time learning and taking care of my equipment.







« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 03:14:38 AM by SnowHiker »

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2016, 02:56:36 AM »
What kind of weather station is this?
A VP2 is a digital electronic automatic weather station made by Davis Instruments.  One of the variables it measures is rainfall, which is what the OPs post concerns.








« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 03:07:46 AM by SnowHiker »

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2016, 03:37:55 AM »
By the way, this probably isn't related to the OPs problem, but the original VP was known for having similar runaway rainfall amounts at times when the temperature dropped below freezing, particularly after snow or rain, if I remember.  I don't know if Davis ever acknowledged what the problem may be, but I haven't heard of such problems with the VP2 being nearly as common, if it affects them at all.  But I assumed it had something to do with moisture freezing somewhere in the mechanism.  I'm not sure now if it may have something to do with the reed switch being frozen in the closed positon or something, but I think I have stopped it by unplugging the sensor, or maybe even by bumping the ISS.

I've been covering the rain collector in the winter with a small feed bowl (you don't need a fancy special made cap, unless you just need to spend money), so I think it's been some years since I've had that problem.  I guess maybe I should just spend another few hundred on a VP2 so I won't have to bother covering the rain cone, or clearing spurious rainfall amounts. :)

It doesn't happen at around freezing when it happens where you are, does it?

Offline johnd

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2016, 04:50:27 AM »
By the way, this probably isn't related to the OPs problem, but the original VP was known for having similar runaway rainfall amounts at times when the temperature dropped below freezing, particularly after snow or rain,

This was attributed by Davis to ice build-up on top of the bucket stops, which limited bucket movement and occasionally allowed the buckets to oscillate around a mid-tip position, hence causing many spurious contact closures. There's no reason in principle why the VP2 TBR mechanism shouldn't suffer from the same problem, but it may be that the redesign of the buckets moulding in the VP2 has minimised this problem.
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Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2016, 05:03:14 AM »
This was attributed by Davis to ice build-up on top of the bucket stops, which limited bucket movement and occasionally allowed the buckets to oscillate around a mid-tip position, hence causing many spurious contact closures. There's no reason in principle why the VP2 TBR mechanism shouldn't suffer from the same problem, but it may be that the redesign of the buckets moulding in the VP2 has minimised this problem.
Thanks John, I think that's the first time I've heard the reason, but I assumed Davis must have had figured it out and pretty much eliminated the problem somehow.  It seems it would have been pretty rare to stop right at the mid-position like that, and it was a pretty constant oscillation as it just kept recording something like 15 inches per hour, if I remember, for an indefinite amount of time, but I did experience it several times before I started covering the bucket in winter.  In any case, it might show there can be other things going on that just replacing a circuit board may not help.

Offline Aardvark

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2016, 09:41:39 AM »
Send it in for refurbish if that is the way to go.   You can also get the ISS unit from Scaled  Instruments and replace it instead.    I would go for the new stuff if it were me and definitely, quit farting around on this site testing this and that when the experts told you what was wrong with it.
Aardvark, some people like to test and find out what is going on with their equipment, and to try to fix it rather than just throw money at it.  You obviously have plenty of money to toss around (you must be in public service), but not everyone does.  Some people would also like to avoid the down time that is involved in sending the unit in or ordering new parts.

I see part of this forum to be to learn what may cause problems, so it may be of help to others who may run in to similar problems and who may be interested in trying to fix the problem if possible, or who want to try to avoid having the same problems, rather than just automatically throw money at it.  Or are just plain curious about what is going on.

Why do you even bother reading these threads if it bothers you so much that people don't just automatically go out and buy new parts or send everything to Davis at the first sign of trouble like you do?  I think people are smart enough to determine for themselves at what point they are wasting their time and when to send it in or buy new parts.  If people choose not to listen to the "experts", by which I assume you mean yourself, that's their business.  You did your job by telling them what's wrong, if they're too stupid to listen to you, maybe it would be best to move on.

By the way, I'm still running an original VP that's over 12 years old and working perfectly.  But then, I guess I'm not as rich as you are, and my time isn't as precious as yours, so I can afford to waste it and spend time learning and taking care of my equipment.

I really don't have a lot of money to throw around or I would have long ago chucked this iMac and gone back to a PC .  I replace what I can't fix.   I tried the fix for my soil sensors and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.   

I have never insulted anyone offering a solution  that unless they are real good with repair of a circuit board (and there are some electrical engineers here that have the diagnostic equipment and skill to do just that.).   

I am not a rude turd as you are being to me.   I simply implied that if they had already contacted Davis and was told the board was failing, to send it in or replace it. I find that an option.   I would have assumed by all the OTHER suggestions that they checked out the seal around the ISS where the solar panel hits the ISS, that the gasket was in place and that the cheap rubber plug where the wires feed in was tight.  That someone else suggested cleaning out the Rj11 socket to be sure that no crud had accumulated such as contaminated dielectric gel, that no wires were frayed. That the tipping bucket wasn't off the mounting or full of debris that was causing a vibration that resulted in the high count.   Another person suggested the reed switch going bad as well as to check for pinched or frayed wire.   Still another said that after doing all that unplug it and see what happens.

AND THEY DID,  it still counts.  I think someone else said put the ISS on a different channel to see maybe it is a channel thing and something is trying to send data . We do have 8 possibilities.  I think the person did all if not most and then decided to call Davis,  to send it in and they could get all new parts for the refurbish price.

People are free to either  accept my solution or to look further.  I am a retired high school science teacher on a pension and social security. I haven't yet won the lottery. I am almost 70 years of age and have had a weather station site going since 1993.  I drive a 2001 Jeep with an interesting sounding engine, a driver seat that makes funny sounds now, rust on the right rear quarter panel that seems to resist being sanded, primed and painted only to rust again.   Being told that the rust is seeping through the solid metal by 4 body shops that want to do everything from doing what I am doing, cut out the offending part and welding in a new one, to removing the whole quarter panel and half the roof, I took the advice of one of them , save your money and when it gets real bad come and see us.

I didn't go back to the other 4 shops and cuss them out for bad advice.  Similar to what you are doing without the words.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SUGGESTIONS , THEN SKIP OVER WHAT I WRITE.  I AM NOT GOING AWAY.   IF I CAN'T FIX IT, GEEZ  I HOPE SOMEONE DOES.

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2016, 12:47:40 PM »
Send it in for refurbish if that is the way to go.   You can also get the ISS unit from Scaled  Instruments and replace it instead.    I would go for the new stuff if it were me and definitely, quit farting around on this site testing this and that when the experts told you what was wrong with it.
Aardvark, some people like to test and find out what is going on with their equipment, and to try to fix it rather than just throw money at it.  You obviously have plenty of money to toss around (you must be in public service), but not everyone does.  Some people would also like to avoid the down time that is involved in sending the unit in or ordering new parts.

I see part of this forum to be to learn what may cause problems, so it may be of help to others who may run in to similar problems and who may be interested in trying to fix the problem if possible, or who want to try to avoid having the same problems, rather than just automatically throw money at it.  Or are just plain curious about what is going on.

Why do you even bother reading these threads if it bothers you so much that people don't just automatically go out and buy new parts or send everything to Davis at the first sign of trouble like you do?  I think people are smart enough to determine for themselves at what point they are wasting their time and when to send it in or buy new parts.  If people choose not to listen to the "experts", by which I assume you mean yourself, that's their business.  You did your job by telling them what's wrong, if they're too stupid to listen to you, maybe it would be best to move on.

By the way, I'm still running an original VP that's over 12 years old and working perfectly.  But then, I guess I'm not as rich as you are, and my time isn't as precious as yours, so I can afford to waste it and spend time learning and taking care of my equipment.

I really don't have a lot of money to throw around or I would have long ago chucked this iMac and gone back to a PC .  I replace what I can't fix.   I tried the fix for my soil sensors and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.   

I have never insulted anyone offering a solution  that unless they are real good with repair of a circuit board (and there are some electrical engineers here that have the diagnostic equipment and skill to do just that.).   

I am not a rude turd as you are being to me.   I simply implied that if they had already contacted Davis and was told the board was failing, to send it in or replace it. I find that an option.   I would have assumed by all the OTHER suggestions that they checked out the seal around the ISS where the solar panel hits the ISS, that the gasket was in place and that the cheap rubber plug where the wires feed in was tight.  That someone else suggested cleaning out the Rj11 socket to be sure that no crud had accumulated such as contaminated dielectric gel, that no wires were frayed. That the tipping bucket wasn't off the mounting or full of debris that was causing a vibration that resulted in the high count.   Another person suggested the reed switch going bad as well as to check for pinched or frayed wire.   Still another said that after doing all that unplug it and see what happens.

AND THEY DID,  it still counts.  I think someone else said put the ISS on a different channel to see maybe it is a channel thing and something is trying to send data . We do have 8 possibilities.  I think the person did all if not most and then decided to call Davis,  to send it in and they could get all new parts for the refurbish price.

People are free to either  accept my solution or to look further.  I am a retired high school science teacher on a pension and social security. I haven't yet won the lottery. I am almost 70 years of age and have had a weather station site going since 1993.  I drive a 2001 Jeep with an interesting sounding engine, a driver seat that makes funny sounds now, rust on the right rear quarter panel that seems to resist being sanded, primed and painted only to rust again.   Being told that the rust is seeping through the solid metal by 4 body shops that want to do everything from doing what I am doing, cut out the offending part and welding in a new one, to removing the whole quarter panel and half the roof, I took the advice of one of them , save your money and when it gets real bad come and see us.

I didn't go back to the other 4 shops and cuss them out for bad advice.  Similar to what you are doing without the words.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SUGGESTIONS , THEN SKIP OVER WHAT I WRITE.  I AM NOT GOING AWAY.   IF I CAN'T FIX IT, GEEZ  I HOPE SOMEONE DOES.
How is it that my suggestions come across as rude to you, when your suggestion, that I've seen you use before, amounts to nothing more than "shut up and go away"?

So I'm supposedly cussing you out without the words, whatever that's supposed to mean. Whatever do you think you're doing?  Who here is using the crude language?  You think you're helping by basically telling everyone who is still trying to help that you consider their advice and suggestions to be useless and that they should stop posting and go away because the experts have already spoken?

Davis, and probably most other technical support units, seem to have a tendency to over recommend new parts when they may not be needed.  I know from experience.  Not that they're bad, but that it's difficult and time consuming to fix each problem over the phone or email.  That's one reason boards like this can help.  And how do you think you're helping by telling everyone that you consider the matter to be settled and to
and definitely, quit farting around on this site testing this and that when the experts told you what was wrong with it.
???

You actually think that doesn't sound rude????

I've been on these boards a long time.  I remember when you had the original VP with repeaters every so many feet, and one on each side of each wall, interior and exterior as I recall, and with the tip of console antenna appeared to be pointed toward the transmitter through a window (probably low-e) as if the signal shoots out the end like a shot gun.  That, along with what sounds like your insistence that people spend little time troubleshooting and buy new equipment, is where I got the idea you have plenty of money to spend.

If you think I sound rude, that's too bad, but that is exactly how you sound to me.

Then your yelling: "IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SUGGESTIONS , THEN SKIP OVER WHAT I WRITE," is the same advice I had for you, except I didn't lose my temper and yell at you.  So if you don't like my advice, why don't you follow your own?

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2016, 01:00:46 PM »
..... definitely, quit farting around on this site testing this and that when the experts told you what was wrong with it.

That's rude.

Offline SLOweather

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2016, 01:24:06 PM »
[admin mode] OK, everyone go sit in the corner for a while...[/admin mode]

Now then, I have seen 2 or 3 instances of this happening.

One is a older tipper bucket with axle bearing holes in the plastic worn enough that the tipper would balance level, held there by the magnetic attraction between the magnet and switch.

One was a switch with a cracked glass envelope.

And the last was most puzzling. The inside of the switch envelope was blackened as if from arcing. The only thing I can figure is that a nearby lightning strike induced EMF into the cable and caused the contacts to arc.


Offline SBWX

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2016, 01:05:03 PM »
RE: Just get the refurb and done. Since I am in Canada it will cost me around $325 after exchange and shipping. I will only do this as a last resort. I did not find Davis support all that helpful as after I explained my issue the only response I got was looks like transmitter board. No other trouble shooting done or asked to test anything. I am not into swapping/buying parts unless I know it will resolve the issue. That is why I came this this forum for help and maybe resolve the issue

It is not the console as I am using the wireless Envoy with data logger and directly connected too my router. Since the console and Envoy report the same the issue has to be with the VP2. The FW is up to date on all 3 devices.

I have replaced batteries in the console,VP2 and the Envoy. I did test them and all where OK but replaced anyway just to rule them out. I checked everything on the VP2 and all seems and appears fine. No moister inside and the Fars fan is running. I did manually tip the rain bucket and each time it did register correctly.

Everything right now is 100% but will find out when it rains again as we are getting 4 storms over the next few days. I am still confused what the cause maybe.

I was able to fix most data but WU and WeatherLink Website site as well when connecting to the VP2(WeatherLink software) still says over 6500MM for the month. I have adjusted both the monthly and yearly totals(WeatherLink software) but the sites and VP2 still show over 6500MM. How do I fix. I also went to WeatherLink software and browsed the data and adjusted and each time asked me if I wanted to update the rain database which I said yes to. 

I was able to fix the console monthly and yearly.

THANKS

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Rain sensor going crazy
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2016, 01:21:27 PM »
Just out of curiosity, 5 days ago I asked:

What do the console diagnostics say, regarding the quality of reception, etc.?

johnd asked:
Quote
1. Does the rain rate reading stop if you disconnect the rain gauge?

I don't recall a specific answer to that question, either, but perhaps there was one.

 

anything