Author Topic: 8.8 quake (Read 14397 times)

WeatherHost · « **Reply #25 on:** March 12, 2011, 07:52:39 AM »

Reports from the National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology in Italy estimated the 8.9-magnitude quake shifted the planet on its axis by nearly 4 inches (10 centimeters).

They said the same thing about the axis shift after the Chile earthquake.

I just want to know if the Japan 'quake shifted further off-axis, or back closer to where we were before Chile.

chief-david · « **Reply #26 on:** March 12, 2011, 09:03:15 AM »

Quote from: Slow Modem on March 12, 2011, 07:34:52 AM

This is hard to believe:

Quote
(CNN) -- The powerful earthquake that unleashed a devastating tsunami Friday appears to have moved the main island of Japan by 8 feet (2.4 meters) and shifted the Earth on its axis.

"At this point, we know that one GPS station moved (8 feet), and we have seen a map from GSI (Geospatial Information Authority) in Japan showing the pattern of shift over a large area is consistent with about that much shift of the land mass," said Kenneth Hudnut, a geophysicist with the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS).

Reports from the National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology in Italy estimated the 8.9-magnitude quake shifted the planet on its axis by nearly 4 inches (10 centimeters).

They said the same thing about the axis shift after the Chile earthquake. Too many more and it's gonna start affecting the seasons!

I remember hearing that about Chile too. It made the poles wobble and tilt at a different angle.
Think about the amount of energy to move an island 8 feet. It is bad enough to move a plate 1 mm.
That type of movement could affect worldwide climate/seasons. Large quakes make the entire earth move.

SlowModem · « **Reply #27 on:** March 12, 2011, 09:10:58 AM »

Quote from: mackbig on March 12, 2011, 07:38:05 AM

Of course just before the kids took over the remote this morning, seeing the building at one of the nuke plant exploding is not a good thing.

There are a lot of specifics still not known. However, I do know that reactors do not explode. The explosion had to have been caused by something else in the building not nuclear (like a transformer or something).

ironton · « **Reply #28 on:** March 12, 2011, 09:58:37 AM »

Quote from: Slow Modem on March 12, 2011, 09:10:58 AM

There are a lot of specifics still not known. However, I do know that reactors do not explode. The explosion had to have been caused by something else in the building not nuclear (like a transformer or something).

Exactly!
Based on my "analysis of the video"

and more recent reports on the news networks the explosion was caused by Hydrogen. That leads me to believe it was the generator that exploded because Hydrogen is used to cool the generator. The generator in the turbine building, not the reactor containment building.
On the other hand, these nuclear plants are boiling water design and the same water that circulates through the reactor also is heated to steam and passes through the turbine to spin that and the generator to make power. So that might explain the concern over coolant loss and core exposure.
FWIW - I worked 30+ years in power generation (as does slow modem) with most in nuclear - so much of this equipment is familiar. I would not want to be part of that response team.

SlowModem · « **Reply #29 on:** March 12, 2011, 10:30:03 AM »

Quote from: ironton on March 12, 2011, 09:58:37 AM

Exactly!
Based on my "analysis of the video" and more recent reports on the news networks the explosion was caused by Hydrogen. That leads me to believe it was the generator that exploded because Hydrogen is used to cool the generator. The generator in the turbine building, not the reactor containment building.
On the other hand, these nuclear plants are boiling water design and the same water that circulates through the reactor also is heated to steam and passes through the turbine to spin that and the generator to make power. So that might explain the concern over coolant loss and core exposure.
FWIW - I worked 30+ years in power generation (as does slow modem) with most in nuclear - so much of this equipment is familiar. I would not want to be part of that response team.

Actually, the nuclear plant where I worked had hydrogen recombiners in the containment building (hydrogen can be released/produced from the breakdown of water molecules). And hydrogen is explosive in concentrations of 5 to 75% in air (if memory serves me correctly).

However, I worked at a Pressurized Water Reactor (PWR) which had a pretty small containment building. So I can only speculate at this point about the Japanese plants which are Boiling Water Reactors (BWRs) as mentioned above. We'll know more as the facts are disclosed.

ironton · « **Reply #30 on:** March 12, 2011, 04:12:18 PM »

Quote from: Slow Modem on March 12, 2011, 10:30:03 AM

Actually, the nuclear plant where I worked had hydrogen recombiners in the containment building (hydrogen can be released/produced from the breakdown of water molecules). And hydrogen is explosive in concentrations of 5 to 75% in air (if memory serves me correctly).

However, I worked at a Pressurized Water Reactor (PWR) which had a pretty small containment building. So I can only speculate at this point about the Japanese plants which are Boiling Water Reactors (BWRs) as mentioned above. We'll know more as the facts are disclosed.

Greg,
Just got back home to catch up on news and it appears you might be right - the earlier report and my belief (hope) that attributed the explosion to the Turbine building is probably wrong.
-ed

scottm · « **Reply #31 on:** March 12, 2011, 07:41:29 PM »

they are saying:

The explosion was caused by hydrogen interacting with oxygen outside the reactor. The hydrogen was formed when the superheated fuel rods came in contact with water being poured over it to prevent a meltdown.

"They are working furiously to find a solution to cool the core, and this afternoon in Europe we heard that they have begun to inject sea water into the core," said Mark Hibbs, a senior associate at the Nuclear Policy Program for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. "That is an indication of how serious the problem is and how the Japanese had to resort to unusual and improvised solutions to cool the reactor core."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/12/shaking-smoke-seen-japanese-nuclear-plant-facing-possible-meltdown/#ixzz1GR4FEnWv

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/12/shaking-smoke-seen-japanese-nuclear-plant-facing-possible-meltdown/undefined

Interesting stuff.

ocala · « **Reply #32 on:** March 12, 2011, 08:33:33 PM »

ironton/slow modem
From what I read part of the problem with the reactors not being cooled was an obvious loss of electricity. They said that back up generators were damaged by the the surge. Wouldn't it have made sense to place these genny's in a place well above a worst case scenario surge to prevent this from happening? Being in such a seismic active area with a history of tsunami's should have made this common sense. Or am I completely off base here.

SlowModem · « **Reply #33 on:** March 12, 2011, 08:49:26 PM »

Quote from: ocala on March 12, 2011, 08:33:33 PM

ironton/slow modem
From what I read part of the problem with the reactors not being cooled was an obvious loss of electricity. They said that back up generators were damaged by the the surge. Wouldn't it have made sense to place these genny's in a place well above a worst case scenario surge to prevent this from happening? Being in such a seismic active area with a history of tsunami's should have made this common sense. Or am I completely off base here.

No, you're exactly right. The plants were designed and built to the worst-case scenario. However, what has happened in the past few days went well past that.

I can't speak to the Japanese standards, but the plants I've been experienced with have plans for the worst event in a 40-year period and the worst case in a 100-year period. Most of this has to do with floods and storms, not so much earthquakes (although they are designed to withstand the maximum earthquake predicted for the area, using seismic history and other expert analysis).

You plan and design the best you know how at the time. However, Mother Earth can always one-up your best efforts.

xykotik · « **Reply #34 on:** March 12, 2011, 10:19:41 PM »

Another engineering axiom...

"You can make anything foolproof. You can't make anything damnfoolproof."

But seriously, it's that worst-case problem. You can design the heck out of something and still miss the one thing that does you in. After the Apollo-1 fire, when asked "ultimately, what failed..." astronaut Frank Borman answered; "It was a failure of imagination. We failed to imagine that this scenario could possibly happen."

scottm · « **Reply #35 on:** March 12, 2011, 11:44:31 PM »

Remember the hurricane proof house? good example

WeatherHost · « **Reply #36 on:** March 13, 2011, 12:11:58 AM »

designed to withstand the maximum earthquake predicted for the area, using seismic history and other expert analysis

Don't get me started on history and the 'sperts.

They've been known to be wrong before. WAY wrong.

SlowModem · « **Reply #37 on:** March 13, 2011, 05:56:14 AM »

Just in time for DST!

Quote

WASHINGTON (AP) – You won't notice it, but the day just got a tiny bit shorter because of Friday's giant earthquake off the coast of Japan.

NASA geophysicist Richard Gross calculated that Earth's rotation sped up by 1.6 microseconds. That's because of the shift in Earth's mass caused by the 8.9-magnitude earthquake. A microsecond is one-millionth of a second.

That change in rotation speed is slightly more than the one caused by last year's larger Chile earthquake. But 2004's bigger Sumatra earthquake caused a 6.8-microsecond shortening of the day.

The Japan quake is the fifth strongest since 1900.

DanS · « **Reply #38 on:** March 13, 2011, 07:16:45 AM »

Interesting that the 3 quakes mentioned all caused an increase in the Earths' rotation speed. I wonder if earthquakes either have no effect or increase rotation, never slow it?

chief-david · « **Reply #39 on:** March 13, 2011, 09:03:29 AM »

Quote from: Slow Modem on March 13, 2011, 05:56:14 AM

Just in time for DST!

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) – You won't notice it, but the day just got a tiny bit shorter because of Friday's giant earthquake off the coast of Japan.

NASA geophysicist Richard Gross calculated that Earth's rotation sped up by 1.6 microseconds. That's because of the shift in Earth's mass caused by the 8.9-magnitude earthquake. A microsecond is one-millionth of a second.

That change in rotation speed is slightly more than the one caused by last year's larger Chile earthquake. But 2004's bigger Sumatra earthquake caused a 6.8-microsecond shortening of the day.

The Japan quake is the fifth strongest since 1900.

I lost one hour and 1.6 milliseconds of sleep. No wonder I am so tired this morning.

tbern · « **Reply #40 on:** March 13, 2011, 04:37:27 PM »

Quote from: chief-david on March 13, 2011, 09:03:29 AM

Quote from: Slow Modem on March 13, 2011, 05:56:14 AM
Just in time for DST!

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) – You won't notice it, but the day just got a tiny bit shorter because of Friday's giant earthquake off the coast of Japan.

NASA geophysicist Richard Gross calculated that Earth's rotation sped up by 1.6 microseconds. That's because of the shift in Earth's mass caused by the 8.9-magnitude earthquake. A microsecond is one-millionth of a second.

That change in rotation speed is slightly more than the one caused by last year's larger Chile earthquake. But 2004's bigger Sumatra earthquake caused a 6.8-microsecond shortening of the day.

The Japan quake is the fifth strongest since 1900.

I lost one hour and 1.6 milliseconds of sleep. No wonder I am so tired this morning.

i can hear your students tomorrow, didn't have time to finish my homework because of dst AND the earth's rotation moved ahead.

DanS · « **Reply #41 on:** March 14, 2011, 12:48:15 AM »

Some more in the news ... http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asia/226509/worst-crisis-since-ww-2-pm-kan

DanS · « **Reply #42 on:** March 15, 2011, 03:20:10 AM »

Saw this today. Gives an idea of how deep the water got at times.

WeatherHost · « **Reply #43 on:** March 15, 2011, 04:41:55 AM »

If it wasn't for what it was, a lot of these pictures would be kind of funny. I've heard of people parking helicopters on their roof, but never a boat.

SlowModem · « **Reply #44 on:** March 15, 2011, 06:22:09 AM »

Good for Aflac!

Quote

Gottfried Fired by Aflac for Tsunami Tweets
Theresa McCabe
03/14/11 - 05:13 PM EDT

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Gilbert Gottfried was fired by Aflac(AFL) on Monday after the comedian made a number of distasteful jokes about the devastation in Japan.

"Japan is really advanced," Gottfried tweeted on Monday afternoon, "They don't go to the beach. The beach comes to them."

Aflac quickly cut ties with the comedian following a string of similar comments.

"Gilbert's recent comments about the crisis in Japan were lacking in humor and certainly do not represent the thoughts and feelings of anyone at Aflac," Aflac Senior Vice President Michael Zuna said in a press release on Monday. "Aflac Japan -- and, by extension, Japan itself -- is part of the Aflac family, and there is no place for anything but compassion and concern during these difficult times."

Aflac added that it has begun its search to find a new voice for the iconic Aflac duck.

Farmtalk · « **Reply #45 on:** March 15, 2011, 05:51:32 PM »

i believe the earthquake has now been upgraded to a 9.1

W3DRM · « **Reply #46 on:** March 19, 2011, 04:40:00 PM »

Quote from: farmtalk on March 15, 2011, 05:51:32 PM

i believe the earthquake has now been upgraded to a 9.1

The official USGS rating is 9.0.

Here is a link to a PDF file giving technical information and graphs about the quake in Japan.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/topics/Tohoku2011.pdf

NOTE: This is a 26.3MB file so take that into consideration BEFORE starting to view or download it.

WeatherHost · « **Reply #47 on:** March 20, 2011, 12:34:26 AM »

Quote

Meanwhile, the March 11 tremors shifted the Oshika Peninsula near the epicenter by just over 17 feet and dropped it by just over 4 feet, the Geospatial Information Authority in Tsukuba, Japan, reported Saturday.

Those two land mass movements are records for Japan, according to government figures.

The global positioning system data from the Tsukuba University-based authority revealed the peninsula on the Pacific coast moved in an east-southeasterly direction toward the epicenter. The quake also moved land masses in many areas ranging from the northeastern region of Tohoku to the Kanto region including Tokyo, the authority said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/19/japan.disaster/

Downlinerz2 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 24, 2011, 08:24:27 PM »

Here is something you don't see on too many weather maps! It's one thing for vessels to avoid coming within 43 nm of the plant. For the people, it is a little harder I would think.
Mark

xykotik · « **Reply #49 on:** March 25, 2011, 02:19:01 PM »

Bill Nye (The Science Guy) has been on CNN all morning as a nuke expert. That's fine I suppose, but I can't shake that he got his rep as "The Science Guy" in the 80's as a sketch-comedian on Seattle TV's spin-off of Saturday Night Live, "Almost Live." I'm sure that there must be a YouTube clip of Professor Nye as the superhero "Speed Walker" or as one of the "High-Fivin' White Guys."

News:

Author Topic: 8.8 quake (Read 14397 times)