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Miscellaneous Debris => Tech Corner => Topic started by: Intheswamp on December 07, 2018, 01:46:42 PM
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A buddy of mine has a Dell Inspiron 3543 laptop that is giving him fits. He has/had Window 8.1 installed and has been plagued with it running slow and freezing. I've tinkered with it and even trying reinstalling Windows 8.1 but it's still doing the same thing. I'm an old stick-in-the-mud and the latest system that I'm really familiar with is Window 7. Is it possible to downgrade this laptop from 8.1 to 7??? I've got a Windows 7 Pro installation disk (and a recovery disk for a home version) and he has a legitimate Windows 8/8.1 prodcut key.
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I don't think you can use that key. You can use them for upgrades in some cases, but unless it was 7, upgraded to 8, I don't think you can revert.
There should be legitimate 'new' copies of 7 out there though, and there may be legitimate keys.
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A buddy of mine has a Dell Inspiron 3543 laptop that is giving him fits. He has/had Window 8.1 installed and has been plagued with it running slow and freezing. I've tinkered with it and even trying reinstalling Windows 8.1 but it's still doing the same thing. I'm an old stick-in-the-mud and the latest system that I'm really familiar with is Window 7. Is it possible to downgrade this laptop from 8.1 to 7??? I've got a Windows 7 Pro installation disk (and a recovery disk for a home version) and he has a legitimate Windows 8/8.1 prodcut key.
Should be possible to do this downgrade. See the Bing search link below (never use Google unless absolutely necessary).
Unless that laptop model is just incompatible with Win 8.1 (have you checked the Dell spec?), it might be better to try and fix it. Was the 'upgrade' to Win 8.1 busted in some way, was it done by a competent person? Could also be a hardware problem.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=downgrading+windows+8&form=OPRTSD&pc=OPER (https://www.bing.com/search?q=downgrading+windows+8&form=OPRTSD&pc=OPER)
There's a chance that the overall slowdown is just stupid Windows trying to update itself, which can be a slow, halting process, especially on slower machine (with maybe limited memory, etc).
When Win first gets an upgrade to a later version, what was initially loaded is always way behind on needed updates, so many of them get a high Win priority to be updated, which can bog a machine down for a couple of days after the initial load.
Later Win versions have minimized human 'update' intervention, they seize control of your machine and just update as they please. (it's just incredible that Windows, every version, has always needed huge numbers of 'security' patches; it's like when they designed it nobody even thought of security issues... /rant)
My main machine has suffered from a major slowdown for the last few weeks, it used to be a demon. I kept seeing a Windows (10) update task running at the top of CPU usage in Task Manager, but couldn't do anything about it.
Finally found out when doing a reboot that it was Win 10 doing a major update/grade in its' usual sneaky way. It took weeks mostly because of my often slow IP connection, I guess. I've known of the changes to Win update mechanisms for 8 and above for ages (have been a MS Windows beta tester since Win ME), but I've never seen one go so slowly and bog my machines down like this last one.
Seriously thinking of abandoning Windows. I'm still using Win ME, 7, 8, and 10 machines, plus a Linux I haven't had on in a while. Linux is another can of worms too, IMO.
I like a lot about Win10, but it also has so many agro factors (I began with various machine OS's before UNIX came from Kernigan and Richey's lab, then the first UNIX and it's 'children' OSs. Those were the days. Gates borrowed heavily from UNIX, like Torvald.).
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Yeah, I've been looking at different pages talking about downgrading but one will be in conflict with another and they all seem like there's some extra hoops to jump through.
I just thought about it and I've got an old Dell SMF Optiplex with a valid product key. As I seem to recall, though, there's some hoops to jump through in order to move that copy of Win7 to a different computer. Hmm, time to do some more research.
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John, this slowdown had been going on for quiet some time. The freezes had become more frequent...were talking one an hour or so...sometimes more often.
At first I tried to run Windows Update to be sure he had the current files...he doesn't like "snooping eyes" and was complaining about so many updates being forced on him. When I looked there were many updates downloaded but none of them were installed...going back to 2015. I ran sfc /scannow and that resulted in things checking ok. Checked for malware, virus, etc.,. Nothing. Just would run slow and freeze.
I (incompetent me, and I say that seriously ;) :lol:) reinstalled Win8.1 the other night. I had to do a search after it hung at 65% and would not proceed. I found that people were reporting it taking 3 to 18 hours to move past the 65% mark. I told my buddy "bye" and the next day it got past 65%...around 20 hours later!!! When it finally got to a point where he had to add input he called me on the phone....he was impatient for his computer.<g> Of course, sitting here unfamiliar with anything beyond Win7 (and not a computer whiz at that!) it was me talking on the phone with a kind of "deer in the headlights" look on my face. :shock: I didn't hear from him until the following day when he said at first it was running slow but with no freeze-ups...but then by the evening it was freezing up again. Maybe I'm in over my head, thus the question of downgrading to Win7.
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Oh well, it looks like I can't move the Win7 OS from the dead computer to another computer. It appears that OEM Windows software lives and dies with the computer it was installed on. :mad:
Maybe move from 8.1 to 10....???<sigh>
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Oh well, it looks like I can't move the Win7 OS from the dead computer to another computer. It appears that OEM Windows software lives and dies with the computer it was installed on. :mad:
Maybe move from 8.1 to 10....???<sigh>
I wondered why, at this time-2018/9, he was going to Win 8.1 from Win 7. A move to Win 10 would make more sense, it's a much better OS.
But maybe he had an unused Win 8.1 OS just sitting on the shelf.
You can find Win 10 OS deals (OEM version or full) on 'special' at places like Newegg.com (http://Newegg.com) at very good prices, every few weeks they run a 'deal'.
It might be worth the expense of just going to Win 10 (never heard much good about 8, but many like 10 a lot).
I hope that he won't lose too much data or installed programs/apps in this. Win 10 is good about preserving "your stuff" most of the time. I've done a couple of 're-installs', without losing anything important.
Like I do, bought a Win 8 on a special deal real cheap, but never got around to installing it. Then Win 10 came out, and shortly after with a free MS upgrade deal for older OS's, so I upgraded a number of Win 7's to 10 for free. No, it wasn't exactly free, Win 10 is loaded with intrusive stuff. You have to go into it and turn off dozens of spy-like things. Unless you don't mind them.
Like with Google, if it looks to be free, the actual cost is your data/life, unless you clean it.
You can do a relatively easy downgrade from Win 10 back to 7 for some time after upgrading (Win 10 saves an 'image' of the old OS on disk- for some time- maybe forever?).
I thought about it, Win 10 has some big differences from 7, but once I got used to 10, I preferred it, and 7 had been my favorite Win.
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A buddy of mine has a Dell Inspiron 3543 laptop that is giving him fits. He has/had Window 8.1 installed and has been plagued with it running slow and freezing. I've tinkered with it and even trying reinstalling Windows 8.1 but it's still doing the same thing. I'm an old stick-in-the-mud and the latest system that I'm really familiar with is Window 7. Is it possible to downgrade this laptop from 8.1 to 7??? I've got a Windows 7 Pro installation disk (and a recovery disk for a home version) and he has a legitimate Windows 8/8.1 prodcut key.
Ed,
That machine should do Windows 7 without any issues, especially if he has at least 4 GB of RAM in it to use the 64bit version. I have always used Windows 7 since it came out, and still do on the 3 machines I have here. These machines will NOT be upgraded to Windows 10, period. Have you tried putting the DVD in, and when it comes up, will it allow you to do a complete install or is Windows 8 going "No, that isn't happening?" If Windows 8 is being the bad guy here, you may have to go into the BIOS and change it to when the system boots up, it boots first from the CD/DVD drive, then use the Windows 7 disk. Also, if you are able to get Windows 7 on his machine, his Windows 8/8.1 key will NOT work with it.
John
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I wondered why, at this time-2018/9, he was going to Win 8.1 from Win 7. A move to Win 10 would make more sense, it's a much better OS.
Right. Like ME was better than XP.
People stay with XP and 7 because they work, without all the spyware added on.
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It's interesting, but I have four computers that I deal with...two laptops and two desktops. One laptop is running XP and idles along running BeeWeather.com 24/7 and doesn't miss a beat. The other three computers all have Windows 7 on them. They just all "work". When I saw my first Windows 8 screens with the big squares of apps I thought to myself "How cumbersome...a simple, clean desktop is much better". So, I stayed with Win7. Then I start hearing all the problems with Win8 and I was glad I stayed with 7. I've no hankering to upgrade.
As for my buddy, I was trying to find the cheapest solution for him...he's disabled and on a limited income and takes care of his mother who is 92. TV, his computer, tending a small garden, and caring for his mother is pretty much his life right now. I think his problems would be solved if I could get him back to Windows7. He doesn't do nearly the stuff I do on a computer and Win7 does what I need it to do.
So, is it pretty well understood that an OEM product key for Win7 won't transfer to a different machine? I see on eBay where lots of the keys are being sold...but do they work? They are stated as coming from "unused" pc's. I could try the extra one I have first, I suppose.
I'm not sure where he bought this laptop, he's had it a couple or three years. But, there's no Microsoft Product Key tag on it anywhere. :?
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You understand wrong - a valid W7 key will work on ANY machine. I have done it numerous times.
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I wondered why, at this time-2018/9, he was going to Win 8.1 from Win 7. A move to Win 10 would make more sense, it's a much better OS.
Right. Like ME was better than XP.
People stay with XP and 7 because they work, without all the spyware added on.
You're totally misreading what I wrote. He was going to upgrade for some reason, which we don't know; maybe he got a deal on an 8.1 OS disk, 7 was acting up, or just wanted to move on.
In late 2018 moving from Win 7 to 8.1 (a crap OS by most) doesn't appear wise.
A move from Win 7 to 10 is a far better move. Win 10 is a much more stable, flexible, and efficient OS than any preceding Windows.
As I wrote, I was reluctant to even get the 'free' Win 10 upgrade for some of my machines (because I just like 7 too). I upgraded one Win 7 first (knowing that it was made easy by MS to go back to 7). Then I thoroughly checked it out, didn't like it much to start, but in a few days I saw its' clear superiority to 7 in many ways. I later, after a month or so, then upgraded a couple more systems to 10. It's just a matter of giving it a fair trial, and changing a few old habits.
I still run 2 or 3 Win 7's, and still like it a lot. But 10 beats 7 in many ways.
I also covered the Win 10 'spy' stuff, you can turn it off (hate crap like Cortana and the various 'search helps' stuff, just turn it off). What I really don't like is 10's update process, but it makes sense for most users, who won't safely maintain their own updates and security.
The biggest elephant in the room is that Windows 7 reaches it's absolute "end of life" on 14 Jan 2020, in a little more than 1 year (Pro version has a paid 'security updates' option until 2023). Win 7 is almost 9 years old since RTM, 7's mainstream support ended almost 3 years ago. Win 10 will be supported until 2025.
Another big elephant is that Win 10 (and 7 and all other OS's) will obsolete certain hardware and software that worked fine on the old OS. Some peripherals, like certain printers, etc., will not get their drivers updated/supported on the new OS, and become unusable; same with some software programs/apps, they become incompatible with the new OS.
I don't like either 'elephant', but that's progress (I have several expensive printers, scanners, etc that only work on an older OS (their manufacturers chose not to provide new drivers for 7 or 10; not Mcrosofts fault), which is partly why I still have the old ME/XP/7 systems).
As far as ME v. XP, XP was more stable and better in many ways than ME, but the older ME was a "9x" kernel while XP is an "NT", big diffs; neither are a 'great' OS like 7 or 10. Vista and 8 were misfires.
(I began beta testing ME and XP for MS about a year before they were released; with many others. The same with 7 and 10, got free licensed OS sets and various goodies from it all)
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Thanks Bushman!!!! Must of been some MS smoke. I know the course of action, now. The laptop, as I recall, is 64bit with 4gb of RAM. Funny, must of been regressing some to my past as I first typed "4mb of RAM"...my first PC had 2mb of RAM which was an upgrade!!!<grin>.
Anyhow, the old computer is a Dell Optiplex 780(?) SMF that I used to run my downtown weathercam (non-existing now). The computer croaked on me and I just decided not to pursue it. The product key is just sitting there yellowing...might as well use it. ;)
Reading online it appears that the Win7 installation cd will partition and format the hard drive, thus getting rid of everything on the hard drive. Is that correct?
Thanks for the feedback, everybody. I do appreciate it. I just got off the phone with my buddy and I mentioned installing Win7. He seems to think the Win8.1 installation is working "better"....still hanging, etc.,. I'll give him a few days...I think it's just going to get worse. We'll see.
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I wondered why, at this time-2018/9, he was going to Win 8.1 from Win 7. A move to Win 10 would make more sense, it's a much better OS.
Right. Like ME was better than XP.
People stay with XP and 7 because they work, without all the spyware added on.
You're totally misreading what I wrote. He was going to upgrade for some reason, which we don't know; maybe he got a deal on an 8.1 OS disk, 7 was acting up, or just wanted to move on.
In late 2018 moving from Win 7 to 8.1 (a crap OS by most) doesn't appear wise.
A move from Win 7 to 10 is a far better move. Win 10 is a much more stable, flexible, and efficient OS than any preceding Windows.
As I wrote, I was reluctant to even get the 'free' Win 10 upgrade for some of my machines (because I just like 7 too). I upgraded one Win 7 first (knowing that it was made easy by MS to go back to 7). Then I thoroughly checked it out, didn't like it much to start, but in a few days I saw its' clear superiority to 7 in many ways. I later, after a month or so, then upgraded a couple more systems to 10. It's just a matter of giving it a fair trial, and changing a few old habits.
I still run 2 or 3 Win 7's, and still like it a lot. But 10 beats 7 in many ways.
I also covered the Win 10 'spy' stuff, you can turn it off (hate crap like Cortana and the various 'search helps' stuff, just turn it off). What I really don't like is 10's update process, but it makes sense for most users, who won't safely maintain their own updates and security.
The biggest elephant in the room is that Windows 7 reaches it's absolute "end of life" on 14 Jan 2020, in a little more than 1 year (Pro version has a paid 'security updates' option until 2023). Win 7 is almost 9 years old since RTM, 7's mainstream support ended almost 3 years ago. Win 10 will be supported until 2025.
Another big elephant is that Win 10 (and 7 and all other OS's) will obsolete certain hardware and software that worked fine on the old OS. Some peripherals, like certain printers, etc., will not get their drivers updated/supported on the new OS, and become unusable; same with some software programs/apps, they become incompatible with the new OS.
I don't like either 'elephant', but that's progress (I have several expensive printers, scanners, etc that only work on an older OS (their manufacturers chose not to provide new drivers for 7 or 10; not Mcrosofts fault), which is partly why I still have the old ME/XP/7 systems).
As far as ME v. XP, XP was more stable and better in many ways than ME, but the older ME was a "9x" kernel while XP is an "NT", big diffs; neither are a 'great' OS like 7 or 10. Vista and 8 were misfires.
(I began beta testing ME and XP for MS about a year before they were released; with many others. The same with 7 and 10, got free licensed OS sets and various goodies from it all)
John, I really appreciate the feedback but I think you misread me. My buddy's laptop has Win8.1 installed on it and is the problem OS... I was interested in downgrading(?) it to Win7, which I use daily and am familiar with. As far as I know Win7 has never been installed on his laptop. If my buddy decides to move on from Win8.1 the inexpensive route for him would be to install Win7 using the product key that I have onhand. He's in no way a power user...no word-processing, graphics, spreadsheets, etc.,...just surfing the net and playing a few low-power games.
Having said all of that, your mention of the elephant in the room is something to consider...for my personal computers, too. Before going the Win7 route I'll mention this to my buddy as it definitely is something to consider. I've also ran into an OS obsoleting a piece of equipment...Win7 and an Epson flatbed scanner that I had, the scanner was suddenly, for all practical purposes, dead. Looks like Win10 product keys are available on eBay fairly plentiful.
Shoot, I'm wondering about my own home system now. It's a Dell Optiplex 780 64-bit machine...already 8 years old. :-k
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When money is an issue, I find I can get better older machines far less costly than new. I can still find Win7Pro 'off lease' business class laptops/notebooks for under $200, sometimes under $100
They often have larger screens too. I prefer a 17" over the scrunched down 14" or less that seems common in newer one.
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...I've also ran into an OS obsoleting a piece of equipment...Win7 and an Epson flatbed scanner that I had, the scanner was suddenly, for all practical purposes, dead. Looks like Win10 product keys are available on eBay fairly plentiful.
Shoot, I'm wondering about my own home system now. It's a Dell Optiplex 780 64-bit machine...already 8 years old. :-k
Same here on the scanner; my Epson scanner is at least a decade old but I was able to buy from Epson the one last Win 7 update to keep it functioning. They claim it will also work on W10, but this machine will stay on 7.
And my Toshiba laptop is over 9 years old now! 2GB RAM (although I have considered upgrading to 4 GB for about $120 USD) and 64 bit W7 - won't even handle W10!! Unfortunately I missed the bet laptop Black Friday Deal on Lenovo's site so now I'm waiting for Boxing Day. ;)
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John, I really appreciate the feedback but I think you misread me. My buddy's laptop has Win8.1 installed on it and is the problem OS... I was interested in downgrading(?) it to Win7, which I use daily and am familiar with. As far as I know Win7 has never been installed on his laptop. If my buddy decides to move on from Win8.1 the inexpensive route for him would be to install Win7 using the product key that I have onhand. He's in no way a power user...no word-processing, graphics, spreadsheets, etc.,...just surfing the net and playing a few low-power games.
Having said all of that, your mention of the elephant in the room is something to consider...for my personal computers, too. Before going the Win7 route I'll mention this to my buddy as it definitely is something to consider. I've also ran into an OS obsoleting a piece of equipment...Win7 and an Epson flatbed scanner that I had, the scanner was suddenly, for all practical purposes, dead. Looks like Win10 product keys are available on eBay fairly plentiful.
Shoot, I'm wondering about my own home system now. It's a Dell Optiplex 780 64-bit machine...already 8 years old. :-k
OK, that changes things.
If his machine came (new?) with a working Win 8.1 OS, and had been running +- troublefree for some time that brings up a different set of potential hardware and software problems.
As a laptop, is there a cooling problem? Fan(s) not working, or the insides choked with dustbunnies?
It could be a hard drive beginning to fail, Windows has always been pretty stupid handling disk problems, and it has symptoms very much as described-- an apparent halting and freezing action as the BIOS and maybe disk firmware attempt a sector test/repair/replacement, complicated by Windows own disk error handling.
Has he loaded any possibly problematic software recently?
And now the big, and perhaps most likely item item-- the machine may be infected with some form of malware.
There are various ways of finding and cleaning such stuff. I would recommend downloading a copy of Comodo's A/V, the one designed for use on a USB stick. Set his machine's BIOS to attempt booting from the USB before the hard drive. Let it boot on the Comodo USB and run it. It might find a virus or whatever (have left out many steps, this is a project for the skilled).
If there is little needed data or programs (which could be reloaded relatively easy later) on the machine, or that can be backed up in between freezes, than a 'factory reset' of the OS might work. Most brand name machines have a hidden disk partition that holds a 'original factory image' that can be reverted to. Then everything has to be updated and reloaded; but at least the machine is recovered.
Windows 10 (and maybe 7) can often successfully do a 'soft' OS reset, which preserves all (or most of) of your 'stuff', while reinitializing Windows itself.
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When money is an issue, I find I can get better older machines far less costly than new. I can still find Win7Pro 'off lease' business class laptops/notebooks for under $200, sometimes under $100
They often have larger screens too. I prefer a 17" over the scrunched down 14" or less that seems common in newer one.
<chuckle> I know what you mean. The computer at the shop is a eBay "refurb", as is the home computer. Even the little Dell laptop running XP and Cumulus was a ~$90 refurbished (wiped off with a rag?) one. The laptop was an XP but all of the other ones have been Win7 computers.
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...I've also ran into an OS obsoleting a piece of equipment...Win7 and an Epson flatbed scanner that I had, the scanner was suddenly, for all practical purposes, dead. Looks like Win10 product keys are available on eBay fairly plentiful.
Shoot, I'm wondering about my own home system now. It's a Dell Optiplex 780 64-bit machine...already 8 years old. :-k
Same here on the scanner; my Epson scanner is at least a decade old but I was able to buy from Epson the one last Win 7 update to keep it functioning. They claim it will also work on W10, but this machine will stay on 7.
And my Toshiba laptop is over 9 years old now! 2GB RAM (although I have considered upgrading to 4 GB for about $120 USD) and 64 bit W7 - won't even handle W10!! Unfortunately I missed the bet laptop Black Friday Deal on Lenovo's site so now I'm waiting for Boxing Day. ;)
Yeah, my next major upgrade will be a Win10 computer. When MS stops supplying security updates I'll have to start studying hard and long at at least upgrading to Win10 at home. And I remember when I begrudgingly moved from DOS to Win3.1...time flies when you're havin' fun. :roll:
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The last thing on my resume is computer expert, but I dreaded going from 7 to 10 but have found it probably the best Win yet for a novice such as myself. The auto updates shoved down ones throat suck so I just set the timer to do it at 4am.
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John, I really appreciate the feedback but I think you misread me. My buddy's laptop has Win8.1 installed on it and is the problem OS...
OK, that changes things.
If his machine came (new?) with a working Win 8.1 OS, and had been running +- troublefree for some time that brings up a different set of potential hardware and software problems.
As a laptop, is there a cooling problem? Fan(s) not working, or the insides choked with dustbunnies?
It could be a hard drive beginning to fail, Windows has always been pretty stupid handling disk problems, and it has symptoms very much as described-- an apparent halting and freezing action as the BIOS and maybe disk firmware attempt a sector test/repair/replacement, complicated by Windows own disk error handling.
Has he loaded any possibly problematic software recently?
And now the big, and perhaps most likely item item-- the machine may be infected with some form of malware.
There are various ways of finding and cleaning such stuff. I would recommend downloading a copy of Comodo's A/V, the one designed for use on a USB stick. Set his machine's BIOS to attempt booting from the USB before the hard drive. Let it boot on the Comodo USB and run it. It might find a virus or whatever (have left out many steps, this is a project for the skilled).
If there is little needed data or programs (which could be reloaded relatively easy later) on the machine, or that can be backed up in between freezes, than a 'factory reset' of the OS might work. Most brand name machines have a hidden disk partition that holds a 'original factory image' that can be reverted to. Then everything has to be updated and reloaded; but at least the machine is recovered.
Windows 10 (and maybe 7) can often successfully do a 'soft' OS reset, which preserves all (or most of) of your 'stuff', while reinitializing Windows itself.
My buddy has nothing, no docs, photos, etc., nothing, that he wants to save. I think there are two problems. The first one is he needs to start from scratch, wiping the drive clean. Secondly, he needs to move away from Win8/8.1, either downgrade to Win7 or upgrade to Win10.
I checked for overheating. He's kind of a neat-freak and has the laptop sitting on a piece of cloth but it seems to be getting plenty of air, no dustbunnies in the rabbit holes. The bottom of the case seemed a little warmer than ambient, definitely not hot. Running a hardware stress test is something I haven't done and I see that Dell has some available both online and off. I'll probably see my buddy this week and we might try that one of those tests.
On a side note, I recovered a Win7 desktop for my oldest granddaughter today. An old system that her parents had basically junked out. She's a bright kid and had tried to get it working. I picked up a WiFi dongle from eBay, used F8 and went into "Repair". Chose not save anything. Hours later I had Win7 installed, Service Pack 1 installed with all updates and rolling along with a virus scanner installed along with a few programs. It was running, and should continue, to run great. Amazing what a difference it is working on a Win7 machine and a Win8 machine!!!! Give me the Win7 anytime!!!
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The last thing on my resume is computer expert, but I dreaded going from 7 to 10 but have found it probably the best Win yet for a novice such as myself. The auto updates shoved down ones throat suck so I just set the timer to do it at 4am.
Shoot, computer expert ain't even *on* my resume!!! :grin: I can follow directions pretty good...some of the time.
That sounds good about Win10. My father got smarter the older I got....I didn't though, matter of fact I think I'm gettin' dumber!!!! I still manage to find my way to the feed trough, though!!! ;)
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author=Intheswamp #20
My buddy has nothing, no docs, photos, etc., nothing, that he wants to save. I think there are two problems. The first one is he needs to start from scratch, wiping the drive clean. Secondly, he needs to move away from Win8/8.1, either downgrade to Win7 or upgrade to Win10.
I checked for overheating. He's kind of a neat-freak and has the laptop sitting on a piece of cloth but it seems to be getting plenty of air, no dustbunnies in the rabbit holes. The bottom of the case seemed a little warmer than ambient, definitely not hot. Running a hardware stress test is something I haven't done and I see that Dell has some available both online and off. I'll probably see my buddy this week and we might try that one of those tests.
On a side note, I recovered a Win7 desktop for my oldest granddaughter today. An old system that her parents had basically junked out. She's a bright kid and had tried to get it working. I picked up a WiFi dongle from eBay, used F8 and went into "Repair". Chose not save anything. Hours later I had Win7 installed, Service Pack 1 installed with all updates and rolling along with a virus scanner installed along with a few programs. It was running, and should continue, to run great. Amazing what a difference it is working on a Win7 machine and a Win8 machine!!!! Give me the Win7 anytime!!!
Laptops should always sit on a hard surface with some airspace (on their 'feet' or small blocks, whatever). That 'piece of cloth' can't be good.
Some models are so notorious for overheating that there is a whole class of 'laptop cooler bases' you can buy; they are basically stands with fans.
There are apps that will give you various internal system readings, temperatures included. There are probably 2-3 temp sensors inside, plus most disks have them.
The absolute best program to do this is called "Speccy", from Piriform , free version available. It examines in great detail about everything there is to know about a machine's hardware and software (its' 'specs').
Piriform has several other most excellent utility programs (free versions available). www.piriform.com (http://www.piriform.com)
Sounds like you did a 'manufacturers hidden partition' recovery of your grandaughters 'old' machine, not a clean install from DVD.
Your buddies Dell should have the procedure for reverting to the original 'factory' OS documented (assuming that it is still intact), online if he doesn't have a manual.
This 'factory' reset does not involve wiping the hard drive (as such-- a total one), it reloads the original OS from the backup/hidden drive partition (Speccy will also show an analysis of the hard drive(s), among many other things showing the partitions).
Once Win 8.1 is reloaded an up or downgrade should be possible to 10 or 7.
I strongly recommend Win 10 in this (his) case. Win 10 is inherently far more secure, will update and protect itself automatically, comes with a competent firewall and A/V built in, and is much more stable. Especially for a casual user.
Win 10 can be easily configured with an interface that looks like Win 7 (the traditional/classic look and feel) instead of that stupid "Metro" one that 8 defaults to (8 also can be made to have a classic look).
I also recommend the (free version) Comodo CIS A/V-firewall-lots of otherstuff program. And run (free) MalWareBytes every week at least.
Plus everybody should be using the Opera browser almost exclusively (on all of your devices, systems, OS's--from Win to Android/Apple/Linux/etc).
Opera is simply the best, most secure, most full-featured browser there is (Opera has been around a long time, it has pioneered many of our modern browser features).
www.opera.com (http://www.opera.com)
MS Edge is the default Win 10 browser, it's secure and OK, but is slow, hangs, clumsy, and 'spies' on you. Leave it as the default, but actively use Opera.
Wouldn't touch Google Chrome with a ten foot usb stick.
Look all of these up on Wikipedia for more info and verification.
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Opera ain't Opera no more. It's been pushed around, shoved around and sat upon so much it barely resembles it's former self.
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Yep, no DVD involved with the work on the granddaughters computer...all "redo" was from within the computer itself. That's the first time I've ever done that, and it worked like a charm...other than taking all day to download and install things. :roll: But, she was happy as a lark when she got home and saw the results, so it was all worth it. ;)
As for my buddy's laptop and its temperature... Yeah, I wasn't keen about it sitting on the towel. I may download the Piriform Speccy and give it a twirl on his laptop. Thanks for the recommendation!
Seems I ran Opera years ago, a kind of barebones browser back then which worked well. I haven't looked at it in years. I might give that a shot, too. My buddy did download Firefox and install it...he seems happier with the familiar screens...his computer experience is sitting in front of a browser window...that is "windows" to him. :-)
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Win 10 can be easily configured with an interface that looks like Win 7 (the traditional/classic look and feel) instead of that stupid "Metro" one that 8 defaults to (8 also can be made to have a classic look).
To the best of my recollection (it has been a while!) the ability to boot to the old-style desktop without installing third-party software was restored in the 'upgrade' from Windows 8.0 to Windows 8.1. Windows 8.0 was an unmitigated disaster - 8.1 was only slightly mitigated! :-) I would concur with your advice to go to Windows 10.
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Opera ain't Opera no more. It's been pushed around, shoved around and sat upon so much it barely resembles it's former self.
Opera has seen some changes made, it's still the best.
I started using it in the mid '90's, it was great until they came out with the 'all new' version 15, then it had a few bumps (version is up to 56 or 60 something).
Prior to v15, Opera used its' own rendering engine "Presto", with v15 it began using the Blink engine, which was derived from Chrome.
I still use two older versions sometimes (I had downloaded a number of versions).
Opera also used to have a great email client built right in, now it's a separate program.
Opera is still the best browser out there. I also use two Comodo browsers, two Firefoxes, Safari, and a couple other obscure ones, but Opera is the main one.
The feature set is very extensive, it is extremely stable, it can be loaded down with dozens of 'windows' and many hundreds of tabs. And if you set the option, when you do a reboot or whatever, it all comes back just as you left it, including website page histories (fwd-bkwd).
Plus it has a built-in VPN and superb adblocker.
It has many features and advantages, read the Wiki link below.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser))
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Win 10 can be easily configured with an interface that looks like Win 7 (the traditional/classic look and feel) instead of that stupid "Metro" one that 8 defaults to (8 also can be made to have a classic look).
To the best of my recollection (it has been a while!) the ability to boot to the old-style desktop without installing third-party software was restored in the 'upgrade' from Windows 8.0 to Windows 8.1. Windows 8.0 was an unmitigated disaster - 8.1 was only slightly mitigated! :-) I would concur with your advice to go to Windows 10.
Yep, the Microsoft ijits tried to ram a tablet touchscreen interface onto mouse/keyboard PC's with Win 8. It was a disaster. Then they fixed it up a bit with Win 8.1, but the damage had been done. Very few people worldwide would leave Win 7 for that Win 8 POS.
Win 10 is very different, well worth upgrading to and using. Stability has always been an issue with me, as I would push a machine hard. Older Windows OS's were always plagued with crashes, I almost never have any lockups or crashes with Win 10, and recoveries have been clean (older Wins could damage themselves during a crash...grrrr).
In most aspects anyway. The auto updates, with very little control over them are a PITA for nerds. If one carefully goes through the Setup/System applets and restrict some of the intrusive stuff from running you save agro and processing power.
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I meant to respond to those mentioning buying "refurbished" PC's
Yes, a very economical way of getting late model, near state-of-the-art computers at very good prices.
I recommend getting refurbished 'business class' HP machines. They are great to begin with, but a very useful extra is that HP has a long 'support cycle' for these business PCs.
And a very valuable adjunct to that is that they have an extensive set of downloadable documentation available, along with supported drivers, etc.
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The feature set is very extensive, it is extremely stable, it can be loaded down with dozens of 'windows' and many hundreds of tabs. And if you set the option, when you do a reboot or whatever, it all comes back just as you left it, including website page histories (fwd-bkwd).
I do that with SeaMonkey, the current iteration of what used to be Netscape and Mozilla Suite.
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I've always bought Dell business refurbs. Years ago one my mother bought an HP. I was sold on HP printers, but they were just starting to produce PCs. It was a dud. A big dud. Since then I have stayed away from HP computers. Working on my granddaughter's old computer was the first HP I've worked with. It seemed fine, though the monitor needs replacing (looks like it might have taken a hit on the edge of the screen). Next time I prepare to buy another computer I'll take a look at HP. I'm sure they've improved them and maybe they won't have the peculiar proprietary stuff that Dell slips into some of there systems.
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Hmmm....
Just installed the Opera browser. So far I'm looking at it negatively. Upon installation it took it upon itself to set it as my default browser without giving me the option. Not good, I don't like "push" tactics.
Second negative item... When I open a new tab the little bookmark squares are there but also a long narrow Google search engine window. I've selected Bing to be my default search engine and searching from the URL/address bar results in a Bing search. I hope that I'm missing something here, certainly Bing isn't in Google's pocket, too. #-o
I'm not liking it with the Google search bar there. I can get over Opera setting itself up as the default browser without asking me first, but having a Google search bar in a new tab's window just isn't going to work. My intent this morning is to distance myself from Chrome and Google...and any other Google-related "thing". I know Google is a thieving company, I've put up with it for several years, but I'm over it, finished,...I'm done. So, how do I replace that Google search bar that shows up in a newly opened tab with some other search bar?
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Interesting. Chrome allows me to set Bing as my search engine that opens in new tabs but Opera will not (Opera only shows Google). :-k
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The feature set is very extensive, it is extremely stable, it can be loaded down with dozens of 'windows' and many hundreds of tabs. And if you set the option, when you do a reboot or whatever, it all comes back just as you left it, including website page histories (fwd-bkwd).
I do that with SeaMonkey, the current iteration of what used to be Netscape and Mozilla Suite.
Yes, but does SeaMonkey have a built in, one click, very effective VPN (which hides your actual IP) and adblocker (almost never see an ad anywhere), plus many other very useful features?
Both of those features are complicated extra addons with other browsers. (note that the Opera VPN is only for Opera, it isn't in effect for other apps using your IP connection, like other browsers or email*, etc; as a full IP VPN would do.)
I don't even use many of its' features, but some might; just a matter of your own style and habits, in which Opera is flexible enough to accommodate almost everybody.
Firefox will retain webpage tabs and history too, but MS Edge retains tabs but not their history.
Opera is simply the all around best there is.
* Writing of "email", how many of y'all have an account (free or paid) with the absolutely secure, fully encrypted end-to-end Swiss email provider called "ProtonMail"? No ads, no 'analysis' of contents, no spying; nobody, not even ProtonMail, has access to your email content. (I was an invited beta tester from PM's early days)
Plus, I think it's neat to have my encrypted mailbox securely stored 1000 meters under a Swiss mountain. Not in a Google server farm accessible to thousands of ?.
Our modern 'surveillance state' governments worldwide hate it... so it's gotta be good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProtonMail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProtonMail)
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Interesting. Chrome allows me to set Bing as my search engine that opens in new tabs but Opera will not (Opera only shows Google). :-k
I don't know where you're getting that.
Opera gives you a long list of 'search' providers to choose from and use as a default on the "Settings" option page. Plus you can add on your own URL if you find one not on the list.
I use Bing or Duck as default. I will sometimes specifically go to "Google.com" for certain things, but never as a default.
Have you gone through the 'advanced' Settings options yet? There's lots of selectable stuff in there. Read the descriptions, and "help" if necessary.
Opera is/can be complicated, if you dig into it, because it does so much (lots of stuff I've never even looked at yet).
But you can simplify it. Like anything new (to 'you' or anyone), it takes a little getting used to.
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Hmmm....
Just installed the Opera browser. So far I'm looking at it negatively. Upon installation it took it upon itself to set it as my default browser without giving me the option. I never saw this happen, Opera has always given a choice of default. Not good, I don't like "push" tactics.
Second negative item... When I open a new tab the little bookmark squares are there but also a long narrow Google search engine window. I've selected Bing to be my default search engine and searching from the URL/address bar results in a Bing search. I hope that I'm missing something here, certainly Bing isn't in Google's pocket, too. #-o
You can get rid of that whole 'initial page' stuff in the "Settings" options.
I'm not liking it with the Google search bar there. I can get over Opera setting itself up as the default browser without asking me first, but having a Google search bar in a new tab's window just isn't going to work. My intent this morning is to distance myself from Chrome and Google...and any other Google-related "thing". I know Google is a thieving company, I've put up with it for several years, but I'm over it, finished,...I'm done. So, how do I replace that Google search bar that shows up in a newly opened tab with some other search bar?
Google is a "spying" apparatus...
I've never seen Opera 'make' a browser default selection, it always gives a choice option during setup.
Go into the Opera "Settings" options, select the "advanced" display, and carefully go to each settings page and make your selections. Some options might require a look at "Help", but you can customize almost everything about Opera.
I'm 100% with you on Goog, have been for years, avoid it like the plague (except for one gmail needed for my Android stuff)
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I've always bought Dell business refurbs. Years ago one my mother bought an HP. I was sold on HP printers, but they were just starting to produce PCs. It was a dud. A big dud. Since then I have stayed away from HP computers. Working on my granddaughter's old computer was the first HP I've worked with. It seemed fine, though the monitor needs replacing (looks like it might have taken a hit on the edge of the screen). Next time I prepare to buy another computer I'll take a look at HP. I'm sure they've improved them and maybe they won't have the peculiar proprietary stuff that Dell slips into some of there systems.
HP acquired/merged with Compaq long ago to try to become dominate in the computer/PC biz. It didn't work out too well.
A new HP machine will have some proprietary stuff aboard. But a refurb from a reputable refurber will have a clean OS installed, and little else. They wipe the disk.
The HP business class machines are different from the 'consumer class' ones. Their support windows are much longer, and the documentation and things like drivers, etc is better (documentation especially).
I have 4-5 biz HP's (and some Compaqs), like the HPs better than any others I've had, the old Compaqs not so much; except maybe some Sonys. The HPs are expandable too, I've added and upgraded a lot of stuff into them (memory, drives, video cards, etc).
I got all my HPs from Newegg refurb.
Have never owned a Dell.
Have built a couple of machines from scratch though, for special purposes like navigation aboard the boat. Thinking of building something like a RaspberryPi micro-machine for my WX stuff, to minimize power usage, etc.
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John, Opera definitely set itself as the default browser. Suddenly there were red "O"s scattered over the desktop. Click on a link in an email...POOF!!!...Opera opens up. :-| I had no input into that.
Where I get a Google search bar showing on an freshly opened Opera tab....I wish I knew. I had already gone in and selected Bing as the default search engine (as I mentioned in my previous post). I've actually gone into settings and brought up the search engine list several times to verify that Bing is selected for the default. I can enter a search string in the address/url bar and it will Bing will search. But, a freshly opened tab window still shows a Google search bar. I don't know where I get it from, but I'd like to get rid of it. Seems a lot of the extensions available also reference Google.
Interesting to read your post regarding HP/Compaq. I'll consider an HP on my next refurb purchase...I'm happy where I'm at, for now. Dell's have always performed well for me, though.
I still need to check out the browser that WeatherHost mentioned...Seamonkey. Netscape was the first browser I ever used...been a few years back now.
Seems that Google CEO, Pichai, is getting (rightly) grilled on Capitol Hill today.
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...
* Writing of "email", how many of y'all have an account (free or paid) with the absolutely secure, fully encrypted end-to-end Swiss email provider called "ProtonMail"? No ads, no 'analysis' of contents, no spying; nobody, not even ProtonMail, has access to your email content. (I was an invited beta tester from PM's early days)
Plus, I think it's neat to have my encrypted mailbox securely stored 1000 meters under a Swiss mountain. Not in a Google server farm accessible to thousands of ?.
Our modern 'surveillance state' governments worldwide hate it... so it's gotta be good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProtonMail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProtonMail)
Hilarious. Not. Ask Jamal about encryption. :(
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Wow... (said with a little bit of intimidation)
I just downloaded the data that Google says they have regarding my online activity....over 13GB of data!!!! :shock: I don't even have that much data on me!!!!!!!!!!
I see that you are supposed to be able to delete this data. Really? Ya think so? Probably just delete what I can see and it and other data is "archived" elsewhere. I hope they hang Pichai and the horse he came riding in on. :evil:
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John, Opera definitely set itself as the default browser. Suddenly there were red "O"s scattered over the desktop. Click on a link in an email...POOF!!!...Opera opens up. :-| I had no input into that.
Where I get a Google search bar showing on an freshly opened Opera tab....I wish I knew. I had already gone in and selected Bing as the default search engine (as I mentioned in my previous post). I've actually gone into settings and brought up the search engine list several times to verify that Bing is selected for the default. I can enter a search string in the address/url bar and it will Bing will search. But, a freshly opened tab window still shows a Google search bar. I don't know where I get it from, but I'd like to get rid of it. Seems a lot of the extensions available also reference Google.
Interesting to read your post regarding HP/Compaq. I'll consider an HP on my next refurb purchase...I'm happy where I'm at, for now. Dell's have always performed well for me, though.
I still need to check out the browser that WeatherHost mentioned...Seamonkey. Netscape was the first browser I ever used...been a few years back now.
Seems that Google CEO, Pichai, is getting (rightly) grilled on Capitol Hill today.
Can't explain that 'default' stuff, have never seen anything but having a choice before (and I always add Opera to a new machine, tablet, or phone).
Either they have changed things, which I doubt, or you missed a little checkbox or something.
I always select a "custom' install option to see everything going on.
I always let MS Edge or IE be the default browser; then am careful about using links from email or whatever, always C&P them into (Opera), never just click one and let it use the default browser.
Go to "Settings" on the options menu (click the red "O" at the upper left corner), then click "advanced", and scroll down making your selections.
The ones you're concerned with are in there, even if the initial setup/install isn't what you want, and can be selected or deselected, including how a new tab looks when it opens.
You can get rid of that Google bar on a new tab (one of the first things I get rid of). Some experimentation with seeing what some of those options do is necessary, Opera is one of the most powerful, fast, customizable browsers around and can be complicated..
Get through the initial, understandable, agro and you'll like it.
Talk about agro, in checking through the options I accidentally made Opera the default browser. You have to go to Windows "Settings/Apps or Edge to change back to Edge (or whatever you want).
Some pertinent options:
Search engine
Default browser
Instant Search
Search pop-up
Personal news (select never)
Start page (hide search box, think that that is your irritating Google bar) and speed dial (I sure don't need it), the rest off)
User interface (lots of stuff here, you have to experiment to find how you like it)
For all browsers I always make my 'start page' "about:blank"
Plus many other options I didn't mention. Adblocker and VPN are the most important IMO. With the VPN you can also select where in the world you want to be 'from', that selection is made from the blue VPN button on the (left of) address bar. Click it and see all the options, like 'optimal', Americas, Europe, Asia).
Most have a "Learn more" link right there to check them out.
Opera is super-customizable. I guess I've just got my setup worked out over the years where it's second nature.
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Opera's "VPN" is more of a proxy but well, it is free. And it logs your stuff, etc. If you really need a VPN use something like OpenVPN.
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I use IPVanish, which seems to do a pretty good job. I got a good deal on it a few months ago so I thought I'd give it a try. I use it off-and-on, not constantly, as it takes a little (enough to notice?) speed away. We're on the low-end of Centurystink's food pyramid at a whopping 3Mbps connection speed so I don't want to impact our speed anymore than needed.
What about Firefox? I used it for a long time, but it seemed it kind of "fell apart" for a while. I just read a blurb on it that it's not as memory/resource hungry as Chrome is.
Here are the pertinent settings in Opera...first two are setting pages and third screen capture is what a new tab opened up immediately after leaving these settings look like.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4910/32407759518_b5ec8416d1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RnLeQs)OperaMainSettings (https://flic.kr/p/RnLeQs) by Intheswamp (https://www.flickr.com/photos/71532701@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4846/44462527140_a970ea1397_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2aK15gw)OperaManageSearchEngines (https://flic.kr/p/2aK15gw) by Intheswamp (https://www.flickr.com/photos/71532701@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4895/45366720985_6801d7de47_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2c7UiAz)OperaFreshTabWindow (https://flic.kr/p/2c7UiAz) by Intheswamp (https://www.flickr.com/photos/71532701@N07/), on Flickr