Topic: WS-1400-IP Radiation Shield Modifications?

[dupreezd]

So far, after a week, I am real happy with the results. Temps are lower in the morning by a degree or so. Made a big improvement during afternoon highs. Match pretty well with the other CWOP posters near me. I don't pay much attention to the WU ones. 
My biggest improvement is the humidity, where I was topping out at 99% on windless days, I am reading upper 80 to low 90's.
I have not calibrated with good known instruments. This is just the before and after readings to see if the mod was worthwhile.

No problem with my anemometer. On calm days, I have seen it turn real slow, maybe 1 rev per 2 sec.

Now I have small problem, a bird decided my wind vane is the ideal lookout. Bird spikes for a wind vane? lol.

[MrM1]

MrM1, a thermometer on the roof will read a bit high, so not surprised that you have a slight biased warm.

That's what I would think too, but I'm getting the same slightly warm bias on the ground (ie. Off the roof) too. 5 feet off the ground over grass.

And that is when the Temp sensor actually works. Several times in the pastor@bethelcares.com 10 days it has locked onto one temp and not move regardless of environment conditions. Then without warning it starts working again. (system is only 3 weeks old)


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[Bashy]

Now I have small problem, I bird decided my wind vane is the ideal lookout. Bird spikes a wind vane? lol.

I already have them on my Davis, i used cable ties, didnt work, i ended up having to put the OS above the Davis
that way they use the OS arm and not the Davis wind direction, i really didnt want any stress on that

[MrM1]

OK I gotta wonder this ... What if you could get a WS-0800-IP or WS-0900-IP (the 900 has 2 outside sensor) .... then you could remotely mount the temp sensor.  Are the ObserverIP modules interchangeable?   

I started a thread for this idea here ... https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=32344.new#new

[dupreezd]

DoctorKnow, snapshot of my readings. My inside unit is outside as well. It is currently raining (2.65" since 7:00am)

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[Bashy]

Bashy, I see your have a 3 wire fan, so you are good to add the LED. Btw, my resistor is a 1.5k

it has a fan at the bottom sucking in and a fan at the top sucking out

Won't that cause problems such as buffeting or maybe reduced air flow if the fans does not spin at the same speed. Or is it just a backup in case one fails?

On the

my latest for the OS temp/hum sensor is this creation

Why did you use expanding foam? To provide better insulation against heat/cold radiation?

Sadly this is the OS setup, i need the LED for the Davis thats on the mast, i am sure thats a 2 wire
so will need to buy another fan.

I dont know about any buffeting but its on par with the davis except in full sun where it reads 1ºC higher
BUT, big but, when the Davis was mounted on the same pole they were on par all day, this is the reason
i put the Davis up on to the main mast cause i noticed they were both 1ºC above local stations, there is a
bit of a air pocket where the OS is mounted, lack of wind, produces radiant heat from somewhere, could be
the fences i think, despite fans in both, i could not eliminate that 1ºC anomaly and i tried a lot.

Yes, the foam is for insulation, its sort of based on the Apogee shield as seen here, skip to about 11:50
and would will see what i was trying to copy

[CR1400IP]

Hi

1)Anyone have idea what type of material is used for the radiation shield (temp/humidity sensor)in 1400 ip
2)2 years of weather hasn't changed its colour.
3)so my question is using local products for
constructing does have any impact on accuracy?
4)the layers of the temp humidity sensor enclosure are seperable or not? ,just need to know.
Planning for a 24hr fan aspirated modification to the shield with minimal or no alteration to the present structure.
Hope i succeed .
I want  to use a smaller fan lets see how it fairs up.

[dupreezd]

CR1400IP,

1)Anyone have idea what type of material is used for the radiation shield (temp/humidity sensor)in 1400 ip

To me it looks like the same material as the PVC pipes you use for water. I have a piece on my fence and it is still white.

the layers of the temp humidity sensor enclosure are seperable or not

Yes they are 5 individual pieces. Two screws at the bottom. Check the last picture of my build. I removed the bottom two. No structural changes.

[CR1400IP]

Thanx dupreezd for the help
One more help,can you let me know the dimension of the sensor shield plate which you have removed?
Length ,width and screw ports distance.
Its very difficult in my case to remove my mounted sensor so need the info.
I will prepare my fars and then when the replacement temp/humidity sensor comes from china will install at once.

Thank you

[dupreezd]

CR1400IP, I am not home this week, but I got my son to take some pictures. lol he did it the measurements the easy way. I hope this help. The bottom two are the same with the closed bottom. The next three up have an oval hole between the screw holes for the Temp/hum sensor.

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[Bashy]

Ya did a great job on it for sure...

Just as an fyi, when i made mine, i used pipe/duct and it was white, yet, i still managed to lower the direct sun temp a further 1ºC
after i white glossed it.

I tried all sorts to lower the afternoon, direct sun temps, even painted the pole mounting white, you can see in my image that the
pole and i think the shield is still unpainted. suffice to say i still had another 1C drop to go and the only thing that resolved that was
to move the thing in to the middle of the garden, so, adding fans is not everything but it does help, i have 2 kicking out 4k rpm too,
but, if those fans are just bringing in radiantly heated air then they aint worth squat, hence why i put my Davis on the mast, that
corner is a darn sun trap :/

[CR1400IP]

Thanks dupreezd
Thats really nice of you to send me the info
Appreciate your efforts
Really thats a great way to get the measurements .
Inovative
Thank you.

[dupreezd]

Planning for a 24hr fan aspirated modification to the shield with minimal or no alteration to the present structure.
Hope i succeed .

Any progress on your build?

[CR1400IP]

Awaiting1) my temp humidity sensors from china 2) my ip55 fan
Getting things collected
Lots of ideas permutation combinations going on in the head.
Will keep posting as i get it done
Was thinking about two ways
Sensors at top fan down
Or fan at top sensors down
Which one will be more effective.?
Commercially most have fan at top , so i guess it seems the way to go, but that needs more efforts

It will take around 20 days i guess
I want a good plan in hand before i get my station down

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[CR1400IP]

How did you extend the temp humidity sensor lower down below the fan.
Got my temp humidity sensor today.

There's a plastic wrap on the sensor
I am amazed how it senses the temp with this thing on or may be its some other stuff .

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[CR1400IP]

My temp humidity sensor
Any extension cable suggested for the wire.

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[dupreezd]

CR1400IP, welcome to the crazy crowd. 

You need nerves of steel and a good soldering iron.
Unfortunately I did not take pictures of how I did the extension but I used your pictures to show what I did.
I got me some of these.
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I then removed all the shields and unsoldered the Temp and Hum sensors. Using a large side cutter, I cut the board on the line shown. Do this on the board in the unit, not your new cable. 
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Scraped the copper tracks clean and soldered the header in place.
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I then cut the plug off of the end of the cable and solder the pins on. Hot glue then covered all of the solder joints for moisture and to provide added protection where the cable joins to the pins so that it does not break from repeated bending.
If I ever want to remove the add-on, I would just solder the sensors directly onto the pins and plug it into the header.

I used a red marker to mark one side of the cable (temp sensor side) as well as the PCB to keep the orientation correct.

[dtidmore]

I have finished the construction of my WS-1000-ARRAY/Osprey solar radiation aspirator.  The idea was to create a simple to install, standalone solar powered aspirator.  As the solar radiation shield is the same between the WS-1000-ARRAY and the Osprey, I used the solar rad shield parts from my damaged WS-1000-ARRAY in the construction.  Here are pics.  You might note the pic of the screws.  Turns out finding 4" #3 sheet metal screws is a non-starter!  Luck would be that the little SYMA S107G tail rotor assembly that I used for its motor and prop gave me the solution as the tail boom was stainless and the EXACT diameter of the #3 screws,  I cut the 3" #3 screws and ground down the thread on such that I could insert the two halves of the 3" screw into the tail boom, affixing with JB weld giving me the needed 4" #3 screws!  I have done quite a bit of testing on the aspirator and found that it powers up about 30-45 minutes after sunup, assuming no horizon clouds and within an hour even with some slight cloud cover.  One of the panel will face east, the other west.  The panel are rated at 3V, 70ma and when attached to the motor under bright sunlight, the voltage is 1.25V and the current being pulled is 30ma regardless of one or both panel contributing.  The little propellor does NOT create a massive breeze but rather a nice gentle downward draw.  Installed, the solar rad stack will be 7 plates rather than the 5 normal ones.  I will be pulling the bottom two solid plates off the Osprey and installing the aspirator which consists of 2 hollow centered plates and 2 solid plates. This will ensure plenty of clearance between the temp/humidity sensors and the aspirator propellor.  BTW, the inspiration of this was the work that mrwerley did on his Davis Vantage Vue station using the same SYMA motor and prop and his aspirator is still going strong after two years in the Arizona sun! FYI, I coated the entire back side of the solar panels with epoxy to seal them from any moisture as well as to firmly attach them to the bamboo skewers.

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[dtidmore]

And a couple of pics of the aspirator installed!  My extended screws were long enough to accommodate one more plate than I initially intended for the aspirator, so I added a 3rd closed bottom plate.   This also shows the bird spike mod that I made to the removable rain funnel on the Osprey.

This aspirator would mount up to the WS-1000-ARRAY exactly the same.
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[dport]

And a couple of pics of the aspirator installed!  My extended screws were long enough to accommodate one more plate than I initially intended for the aspirator, so I added a 3rd closed bottom plate.   This also shows the bird spike mod that I made to the removable rain funnel on the Osprey.

This aspirator would mount up to the WS-1000-ARRAY exactly the same.
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Looks great. I'm wondering how much of a difference is made with the extra plate on the rad shield. Is there a point of diminishing returns with the length of the shield? And what is the optimal position of the temp sensor in the shield?

[dtidmore]

I left the sensor position as it was installed during manufacturing which is to say, about 1" from the top of the stack.  The extra bottom shield was to provide a tad bit of extra shielding from any reflected sunlight off the grass or anything shiny in a neighbors yard.  The length of shield was not my guiding principal.  I chose 2 extra center section plates as I needed one plate to house the prop duct and I wanted another above the duct to ensure that there was NO clearance issue between the sensor and the prop.  Once I removed the 2 bottom plates off the Osprey, I found the sensors sitting so close to the first bottom plate location to have likely been touching it, so I was glad I had that extra 1/2" of clearance +/- .  As I mentioned, the extra bottom plate was a last minute call on my part as I had the plate, the screws were long enough, so I added it.  Probably not necessary.

[dtidmore]

An update after almost a week with the aspirator. First off, I never had the issue with temp spikes on my original WS-1400-IP station, nor have seen such with the Osprey, as the early/late sun rays are blocked due to houses, but I had seen what appeared to be stagnant air heating when the winds would die off (typically not an issue here).  I have found that I can spot when the aspirator powers up and down each day, not by any significant change in the temp per say, but by the smoothness of the reported temp changes.  The aspirator kicks in when the solar reading on the Osprey is around 150-200w/sq meter which is about what I would expect given that the aspirator solar panels are only about 2" sq.  I spotted this smoothing of the temp curve almost immediately on installation, but it took a few days for me to decide it was for real.

This is leading me to the conclusion, that a 7X24 aspirator would be preferable.  To that end, I have designed a solar charged super cap design that will run the aspirator for several days without solar re-charging. Also in the design is a fan-failure detector circuit, also powered by the super caps, that will give me a visual indication if the aspirator fan should be in a lock rotor state. I am going to mount the system down pole so as to give me access should such be needed.  I will be maintaining the aspirator mounted solar panels as they will typically pick up the load quicker than the solar array associated with my super cap setup.

I want to stress that the aspirator did NOT make any material improvement in the overall temp trend line, but it DOES improve the reading-to-reading smoothness across time.  Even with a moderate breeze, the OEM solar rad shield by itself is resulting in some minor stagnation of airflow around the temp sensor based on what I am seeing.  As to how well this little aspirator might handle early/late day temp spikes is open to speculation, but I would say that it would reduce them at the very least. 

Given the relative simplicity of the aspirator I deployed, I am hoping that it sparks some interest at Fine Offset to offer something similar as an add-on accessory.

[BLEW]

hi please ..ware can i get this temp and humidity sensor from this is the exact one i need ...do you have a web address or sum thing please...royblew at hotmail dot com

(Email address obfuscated by an admin to thwart scammers... CA)

[dupreezd]

@BLEW are your referring to these sensors? Which one of your sensors gives wrong values?

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If so, then the temp sensor is a NTC 10K bead thermistor and readily available from many sources. Just make sure you get the 1% type.
The humidity might be a HR202L, but I am not a 100% sure. The datasheets looks very promising.
When I had problems with my humidity I was going to order some to test. I also emailed Ed at Ambient explaining my problem and he offered to send me a replacement for free even though my unit was out of warranty. So I never confirmed it is a HR202L.
Give Ed a try first.

 

[BLEW]

HI
yes this is the pcb with the temp & humidity my station is out of warranty now......
and the humidity sensor is very unstable? will be in the 80% and sudern drop to 40% also when raining i had tryed to clean the pcb and the humidity sensor connections but the copper tracks look weathered and the sensor it self....
if i can get hold of a replcment i can repair and have it fully fuctional again....
im happy to buy a cupple but just cant find it any wear..
do i just email support at Ambient Weather.com ?
as i dont know who Ed is at ambient weather?
if you have any more info on this part as to wear and how ....word be very much aappreciated
regards