Author Topic: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution  (Read 5418 times)

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Offline 2thepoint

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Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« on: November 25, 2016, 07:21:48 PM »
A friend who who is a farmer in Southern NJ is in need of an inexpensive way to monitor the inside temperature for approx 25 greenhouses.  All the greenhouses have individual heaters fueled by oil or natural gas.  Most of the heaters are vintage but he does the best to keep them maintained and running.  He lives on the property and has a wireless router with broadband internet access via comcast.  The farthest greenhouse is about 600-700 feet from the router.  Today he will wake up in the middle of the night and walk the farm checking that the heaters are firing in each greenhouse.  Having a web based monitoring solution would add much to the quality of his life!!

What started this post.....
I received an email from AcuRite for their Black Friday sale and stumbled across an item that piqued my interest -
"10-Sensor Indoor Humidity and Temperature Smart Home Environment System with My AcuRite" -https://www.acurite.com/10-sensor-indoor-humidity-and-temperature-smart-home-environment-system-with-my-acurite.html#

I'm not super techy or knowledgeable about the AcuRite products so I began to question what's possible????

- I believe the max distance for this product is 300' under ideal conditions from the router??  Are there inexpensive ways to extend the distance?
- not sure if the max number of sensors for this product/account is 10?? can additional sensors be added to the smartHub? Use 2 smarthubs?
- is anyone knowledgeable about this or another multi sensor solution that could accommodate 20-25 greenhouses without breaking the bank?

BTW, It doesn't have to be an AcuRite solution.  Just something that requires minimal effort to keep running.  He's less of a techy than I am.  His iPhone 4 is his plateau........as a bonus, a free case of next seasons Jersey Tomatoes to the best solution!!  lol

Thanks folks for any help or guidance.

Phil
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Offline Bushman

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2016, 08:11:01 PM »
Warning:  unabashed self-promotion that earns me referral credits: Wireless Tags - http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA   For the record, there is NWIH that you'll get 300 feet with Acurite.  Maybe by adding/daisy-chaining some of their new repeater you could get that far, but I am skeptical.
Need low cost IP monitoring?  http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA or PM me for 50% off Wirelesstags!!

Offline 2thepoint

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2016, 08:58:23 PM »
Thanks Bushman!
Warning:  unabashed self-serving pm that might earn my friend sleep credits coming your way: lol

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Offline tandy1000

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2016, 11:26:57 AM »
Warning:  unabashed self-promotion that earns me referral credits: Wireless Tags - http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA   For the record, there is NWIH that you'll get 300 feet with Acurite.  Maybe by adding/daisy-chaining some of their new repeater you could get that far, but I am skeptical.

These look pretty interesting.. do you know if you can go cloud-free and capture all the data locally? Either an API or sniffing the manager traffic, akin to how we're getting the SmartHub data..?

Offline nincehelser

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2016, 12:33:08 PM »
It sounds like they're looking for a canned solution, so that leaves out a lot of home-brew possibilities.

Personally, I'd forgo the "cloud" and do everything locally, using RTL_433 and monitoring the Acurite temp sensors directly.

The range might be an issue, but if there's electrical power available out among the greenhouses, then a few Pis meshed together could probably cover the situation.

Offline mwall

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2016, 01:15:32 PM »
Personally, I'd forgo the "cloud" and do everything locally, using RTL_433 and monitoring the Acurite temp sensors directly.

+1 for the acurite sensors and doing things locally, especially if you're ok with doing some home brew.

you can get the acurite temperature/humidity sensors for around $12 each without even trying hard.  two AA batteries per sensor and batteries last at least a year.

you can get an sdr dongle for $20 that picks up the signals from the sensors.  plug the dongle into a single pi and you're collecting data from all the sensors.

if range is a problem, you can swap out a higher-gain omni or directional antenna on the dongle, or deploy a network of acurite bridges that all feed back to a single pi.

this would require some basic linux skills, but no programming.

end result is low-power (5 watts), local data storage (sqlite database), almost zero maintenance, plus the ability to upload to whatever cloudy services you want (emoncms, thingspeak, influx, mqtt)

Offline Bushman

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2016, 02:54:04 PM »
Add up ALL the costs on the 433 solution.  :)  I agree though - that'd be a great way to go but you won't save money.
Need low cost IP monitoring?  http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA or PM me for 50% off Wirelesstags!!

Offline Bushman

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2016, 02:56:40 PM »
Warning:  unabashed self-promotion that earns me referral credits: Wireless Tags - http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA   For the record, there is NWIH that you'll get 300 feet with Acurite.  Maybe by adding/daisy-chaining some of their new repeater you could get that far, but I am skeptical.

These look pretty interesting.. do you know if you can go cloud-free and capture all the data locally? Either an API or sniffing the manager traffic, akin to how we're getting the SmartHub data..?

NAFAIK but there is a JSON API.  I am sure SDR could do it.  The API looks like the device reads are pretty simple.
Need low cost IP monitoring?  http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA or PM me for 50% off Wirelesstags!!

Offline 2thepoint

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2016, 03:18:53 PM »
Hey All:
I want to thank everyone who responded.  Please keep the ideas coming......I need to reiterate that I will likely be the installer and support of any solution my friend decides on.  The thought of programming in Unix, configuring a PI integrating API's would make me break out in a cold sweat!  They're all great ideas, but I'm a tech lightweight with some limited infrastructure skills.  The level of knowledge on this board is amazing!

Again Thanks for all your help!
Phil
 
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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2016, 03:51:38 PM »
Hey All:
I want to thank everyone who responded.  Please keep the ideas coming......I need to reiterate that I will likely be the installer and support of any solution my friend decides on.  The thought of programming in Unix, configuring a PI integrating API's would make me break out in a cold sweat!  They're all great ideas, but I'm a tech lightweight with some limited infrastructure skills.  The level of knowledge on this board is amazing!

Again Thanks for all your help!
Phil

Careful Phil, you just might become a weather hardware/software nerd via this forum and then, have to join-in helping others!  :shock:
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Offline Phil23

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2016, 03:55:52 PM »
Hey All:
I want to thank everyone who responded.  Please keep the ideas coming......I need to reiterate that I will likely be the installer and support of any solution my friend decides on.  The thought of programming in Unix, configuring a PI integrating API's would make me break out in a cold sweat!

How would you feel about something as simple as a Microsoft derived Basic?

1 28 Pin chip, DHT22 Temperature/Humidity sensor, & a bit of basic code.

Wifi modules $4.00, 433MHz modules about the same.
Total H/W cost per unit would be under $10.00

Code to read the sensor looks like this.

Code: [Select]
HUMID pin, temp, humidity
PRINT "The temperature is" temp " and the humidity is" humidity

Phil

Offline 2thepoint

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2016, 05:09:07 PM »
Hey All:
I want to thank everyone who responded.  Please keep the ideas coming......I need to reiterate that I will likely be the installer and support of any solution my friend decides on.  The thought of programming in Unix, configuring a PI integrating API's would make me break out in a cold sweat!

How would you feel about something as simple as a Microsoft derived Basic?

1 28 Pin chip, DHT22 Temperature/Humidity sensor, & a bit of basic code.

Wifi modules $4.00, 433MHz modules about the same.
Total H/W cost per unit would be under $10.00

Code to read the sensor looks like this.

Code: [Select]
HUMID pin, temp, humidity
PRINT "The temperature is" temp " and the humidity is" humidity

Phil

Back in the 80's I did write/edit a couple .bat files.......
I'm open to anything as long as I can install & support it down the road. 
thanks!
Phil
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Offline Phil23

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2016, 05:16:23 PM »
I started with these about 9 months back.

They have built in device support for various sensors & the probramming is all in Basic & easy to learn.

I now have 4 in service.

1 monitors ceiling space temps to run heat recovery fans in winter.
Another monitors & controls solar heating on out Hot Tub.

Arduino & rPi I struggle to even understand, but these are a snack.

This is one of them, the Spa controller, https://youtu.be/Sv0NyHuG6eA

Google MMbasic

Phil

Offline mwall

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2016, 05:35:31 PM »
so here is a little summary of suggestions thus far, each of which is using consumer/hobbyist hardware.  you'll have to fill in the evaluation criteria, and cost of your time is not included :)

option a: tag
Code: [Select]
$750 25 t/h tags @ $30 each
 $50 taghub
$800 total

run wire from router to taghub
use smartphone/tablet app from wirelesstag.net
data stored in the cloud

option b: acurite sensors + sdr sniffer
Code: [Select]
$300 sensors 25 @ $12 each
 $25 sdr dongle
 $50 rpi+powersupply+container
$375 total

run wire from router to midpoint of all greenhouses
data stored on the pi
can upload to any online service if desired

option c: acurite sensors + acurite hubs
Code: [Select]
$300 sensors 25 @ $12 each
$180 three acurite hubs @ $80 each
$480 total

run wire 200 ft from router to each acurite hub
ui is myacurite.com
data stored at acurite.com

option d: klimalogg pro
Code: [Select]
$240 3 klimalogg pro systems
$440 22 t/h sensors @ $20 each
 $50 rpi+powersupply+container
$730 total

plug 3 transceivers into the rpi
each transceiver talks to one klimalogg console
each klimalogg console talks to 8 sensors

option e: one-wire (wired solution)
Code: [Select]
$75 25 temperature sensors at $3 each
 $25 1 usb-to-one-wire transceiver
 $50 rpi+power
 $80 wire
$230 total

lots of putzing to set this up, but once wired up no batteries to worry about and works forever

option f: micro mite
Code: [Select]
$250 25 sensors @ $10 each
? controller
? total
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 05:43:20 PM by mwall »

Offline Phil23

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2016, 05:56:39 PM »
That touch screen in my video is about $8.00US.

There are complete controllers available for around $29.00.

I've also got a couple of these, http://circuitgizmos.com/gizmo-store/#!/CGMICROBOARD2-Micromite-Board/p/53821336.

Just plug on a screen & connect to the IO pins.

Phil

Offline Phil23

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2016, 06:19:58 PM »
My projects don't use humidity, so I use DS18B20 Temperature sensors, 7 daisy chained on a phone line bus.
Non-waterproof ones about $1 each off ebay.

As far as DHT22's are concerned, it's not hard to find them for under $4.00.

Phil.

Whether it's Arduino, rPi or Micromite, cost would be about the same.

Just the programming language is easier (in my world, at least), with the Micromite solution.

Offline Bushman

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2016, 07:13:25 PM »
Your summary is "interesting" but there are lots of holes in it.  Like try running 1-wire 700 feet with parasitic power.   What about backup of the data? Etc....
Need low cost IP monitoring?  http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA or PM me for 50% off Wirelesstags!!

Offline 2thepoint

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2016, 08:08:56 PM »
MWall,
Thanks for the excellent summarization.  Let me add some additional challenges to the mix.  I'm not sure what options might fall off the table based on this info.  Aerial cabling from the house/router/isp may not be feasible.  I believe that some of the greenhouses have limited A/C power that is likely brought in via underground pvc or metalic conduit.  Not 100% sure!  I did a quick distance calc from Google Earth.  The house is approximately 681 feet from the farthest greenhouse.  Will distance impact and or lack of AC power impact any of the other options?
He's a friend and I'm retired so my time will be bartered for heirloom tomatoes and other veggies :grin:

Based on ease of set up and the UI, so far I'm leaning toward option a but am open to all other options. 

If necessary, are there folks here on WXForum who we could contract the coding to for a fee?

Thanks
Phil

so here is a little summary of suggestions thus far, each of which is using consumer/hobbyist hardware.  you'll have to fill in the evaluation criteria, and cost of your time is not included :)

option a: tag
Code: [Select]
$750 25 t/h tags @ $30 each
 $50 taghub
$800 total

run wire from router to taghub
use smartphone/tablet app from wirelesstag.net
data stored in the cloud

option b: acurite sensors + sdr sniffer - cabling constraint??
Code: [Select]
$300 sensors 25 @ $12 each
 $25 sdr dongle
 $50 rpi+powersupply+container
$375 total

run wire from router to midpoint of all greenhouses
data stored on the pi
can upload to any online service if desired

option c: acurite sensors + acurite hubs - distance challenge & cable restraints?
Code: [Select]
$300 sensors 25 @ $12 each
$180 three acurite hubs @ $80 each
$480 total

run wire 200 ft from router to each acurite hub
ui is myacurite.com
data stored at acurite.com

option d: klimalogg pro - need to research
Code: [Select]
$240 3 klimalogg pro systems
$440 22 t/h sensors @ $20 each
 $50 rpi+powersupply+container
$730 total

plug 3 transceivers into the rpi
each transceiver talks to one klimalogg console
each klimalogg console talks to 8 sensors

option e: one-wire (wired solution)-distance challenge & cable restraints?
Code: [Select]
$75 25 temperature sensors at $3 each
 $25 1 usb-to-one-wire transceiver
 $50 rpi+power
 $80 wire
$230 total

lots of putzing to set this up, but once wired up no batteries to worry about and works forever - [color=red]need to research[/color]

option f: micro mite - need to research
Code: [Select]
$250 25 sensors @ $10 each
? controller
? total
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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2016, 09:53:38 PM »
As for option a, don't forget you get a discount when buying larger quantities of sensors. They have T/H sensors in a 25-pack for $419.00 ($16.76 per unit). I would suggest contacting their sales group to see if they will cut you a special deal since you would be purchasing a larger than normal number of items in a single purchase. It never hurts to ask for a larger discount than what they show on their website. The "is that the best you can do for me?" question could garner you a better price.
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Offline Phil23

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2016, 10:26:52 PM »

option f: micro mite - need to research
Code: [Select]
$250 25 sensors @ $10 each
? controller
? total

For the forum that has Micromite support, have a search here....

http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/home.asp

Phil.

Offline 2thepoint

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2016, 10:34:31 PM »
Great idea....I'll look into volume purchase pricing
thx,
Phil

As for option a, don't forget you get a discount when buying larger quantities of sensors. They have T/H sensors in a 25-pack for $419.00 ($16.76 per unit). I would suggest contacting their sales group to see if they will cut you a special deal since you would be purchasing a larger than normal number of items in a single purchase. It never hurts to ask for a larger discount than what they show on their website. The "is that the best you can do for me?" question could garner you a better price.
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Offline 2thepoint

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2016, 10:36:18 PM »
Thanks for the link.....many of the options are totally new to me. 

Phil A.


option f: micro mite - need to research
Code: [Select]
$250 25 sensors @ $10 each
? controller
? total

For the forum that has Micromite support, have a search here....

http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/home.asp

Phil.
GW1000
HP2551
GW2000
WS90
WH41B
Meteobridge/RPi4

Offline mwall

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2016, 10:47:45 PM »
Let me add some additional challenges to the mix.  I'm not sure what options might fall off the table based on this info.  Aerial cabling from the house/router/isp may not be feasible.  I believe that some of the greenhouses have limited A/C power that is likely brought in via underground pvc or metalic conduit.  Not 100% sure!  I did a quick distance calc from Google Earth.  The house is approximately 681 feet from the farthest greenhouse.  Will distance impact and or lack of AC power impact any of the other options?

700 ft is not a big deal for wired or wireless.  just about every wireless solution has a 300 ft limit, because that is what the regulations are for unlicensed spectrum.  but there are passive and active ways to extend the wireless, as well as ways to reduce the distance by clever placement of the base stations.  700 ft is easily do-able with one-wire, as long as you power it and don't have major rf interference in the area.  700 ft is easily do-able with ethernet too - you can run power over ethernet if you do not already have power in the greenhouses.  unless you've got a lot of granite to deal with, i would run the wires underground in pvc conduit rather than hanging them.  but whether you go wired or wireless, make it critter-proof (6-legged, 8-legged, and 4-legged).

Based on ease of set up and the UI, so far I'm leaning toward option a but am open to all other options. 

since you will be supporting it, your level of comfort with the solution is probably most important metric.

every solution in the list will require some scripting.  none of them require programming, although the one-wire solutions could (depending on which toolchain you choose).

so are you happier using a cloudy solution like ifttt?  or do you prefer a self-contained ide that you own end-to-end?  do you mind saving the data in the cloud?  is the history as important as the notifications?  is this a one-off, or do you plan to integrate it with irrigation, ventilation, or other systems?  how long until you get fed-up with the canned solutions provided by the cloud providers and need your own displays and notification systems?

even the most expensive solution (wireless tags) is not that expensive; you will spend much more time on this than you will money.

If necessary, are there folks here on WXForum who we could contract the coding to for a fee?

there are already a number of open source solutions that would work almost right out of the box - probably on the order of a day or three of scripting and html level work.  most of the time would be spent doing your dashboards and notification, and that is true whether you go with a canned cloud config or something bespoke.

perhaps someone more familiar with this forum could say what the policies/practices are here for soliciting work?

Offline 2thepoint

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2016, 07:51:17 PM »
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to reply.  Personally I've learned much.  Your time and effort is greatly appreciated.  Tomorrow I plan to sit down with the farmer and review pros/cons, cost etc. of each option  From there I'll be able to narrow the choices.  Again, based on my very limited programming ability and the need for high reliability.  I'm leaning away from a homegrown solution and more toward a canned plug and play option.  I'll update this post ASAP to which option was chosen and next steps.

Phil A.
Mickleton, NJ

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Offline 2thepoint

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Re: Farmer Needs Inexpensive Greenhouse Monitoring Solution
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2016, 09:33:59 PM »
Hi All:
Just a quick note, not much to update on.  Chuckie, the farmer is swamped with Christmas business so we haven't has a face to face to review the options.  He's a key supplier locally of Christmas trees, garland, wreathes, etc.  Greenhouse monitoring is in a holding pattern on his list at the moment.  Evidently paying the bills has a priority in the grand scheme!  Something we all understand.

Phil A.
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anything