Author Topic: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park  (Read 2665 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4827
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« on: August 05, 2019, 03:48:59 AM »
I'm slightly surprised that no-one has picked up on this announcement on the Davis blog:

https://www.davisinstruments.com/blog/union-park-announces-acquisition-of-davis-instruments/

Sorry, I don't know what the implications of this might be, hopefully positive but probably little change for 6-12 months at least.

And some more background:

http://www.union-park.com/news.html

https://www.aemonitoring.com/
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 04:13:00 AM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline CW2274

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6731
    • Conditions @ CW2274 West Tucson-Painted Hills Ranch
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2019, 05:48:26 AM »
I think it'll be very interesting to see what they do with this particular market niche. Hopefully they'll not dumb it down even more than their repeated stating of "lower middle-market industrial technology". Frankly, right or wrong, to me, makes them sound cheap.

Offline weather34

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1068
    • https://weather34.com/homeweatherstation
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2019, 06:33:35 AM »
lets see how the word acquisition pans out and is interpreted..could have been worse with the word takeover or bought out would have the alarm bells ringing..

Offline Maumelle Weather

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
    • Maumelle Weather
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2019, 06:39:10 AM »
This will be very interesting to watch. I am including a link to the companies' News page. It is interesting to see what companies they have acquired in the last 24 months.

Union Park News

P.S. - For those on here who have experience dealing with Davis customer service, refurbs on their stations, etc. It will be most revealing in how that changes for us "the customer". If they are smart, it won't, otherwise considering how many stations are out there..... Part of me says wait and see what happens. The other part says save my hobby money and get another VP2+ while they are in stock before "changes" occur.


John
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 06:48:27 AM by sacreyweather »
GR2AE, GR3, Cumulus

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4827
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2019, 06:51:31 AM »
lets see how the word acquisition pans out and is interpreted..could have been worse with the word takeover or bought out would have the alarm bells ringing..

AFAIK Davis is/was a private company with - I'm guessing - the majority of shares owned by the two joint proprietors. So it couldn't have been taken over in quite the same sense as a public company. Jim A and Bob S are now well into their 70's I believe and so it's been on the cards for some time now that there would be a sale or buy-out.

This will be very interesting to watch. I am including a link to the companies' News page. It is interesting to see what companies they have acquired in the last 24 months.

Union Park News

As per my original post above  ;)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 06:53:08 AM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6822
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2019, 08:02:32 AM »
I think it'll be very interesting to see what they do with this particular market niche. Hopefully they'll not dumb it down even more than their repeated stating of "lower middle-market industrial technology". Frankly, right or wrong, to me, makes them sound cheap.

I find it rather appropriate given Davis not a Vaisala nor an RM Young. But I don't think that matters. It isn't always better to have the top industry product. You can probably have more fun with a Davis than those others.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6822
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2019, 08:06:42 AM »
Hey Union Park one word: VP3

For me that means two things:
- New LCD display that gets data from WLL
- Replace the ISS's LSS (Legacy Sensirion Sensibus) with I2C for all sensors.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 08:12:57 AM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline Intheswamp

  • Early on one frosty morn'...
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1485
  • Sure...I know enough to be dangerous, now.
    • Beeweather
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2019, 08:53:47 AM »
<sigh>  If I had the available money for a second complete VP2 I would go for it.  But, since I don't have it I will continue on as far as I can.  I'm seeing few people accessing my weather station...as long as I can keep it chugging along I will.  If replacement needs to be done later, hopefully all factors are good for doing that.  I'll just have to ride this donkey on out and see what happens.  [tup]

Davis VP2, v3.12
Cumulus v1.9.4  Build 1079
Today's weather beats no weather at all!
www.beeweather.com
www.beausandbonnets.com

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6822
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2019, 09:23:12 AM »
I read through Union Park's website and other sources. This acquisition is not at all like HP acquiring Compaq Computer. Union Park doesn't produce any tangible product. Union Park is Union Park Capital...an investment firm. They just buy middle sized companies they feel are profitable or that could regain profitability with minor investment. They are focused on technology companies.

What does this mean for Davis customers? Probably not a whole lot. I don't see any synergies being formed by the acquisition. I don't see any drastic changes any time soon that wouldn't otherwise occur had Davis continued on without being acquired. None of the Union Park acquisitions become Union Park...they just keep operating pretty much independently.

This is pretty boring news I feel. The good news is that Davis had to be in good or fairly good financial standing to have been a target for acquisition. The team at Union Park is just a bunch of capital investment analyst. They only buy what looks good.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 09:25:32 AM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4827
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2019, 09:30:49 AM »
I read through Union Park's website and other sources.


The AEM link is the important operational one and, in particular I suspect, how Davis will fit in alongside their Lambrecht brand. Personally I think it's potentially good news in that Davis may gain access to the Lambrecht expertise in things like ultrasonic anemometers. And there's nothing in the current AEM portfolio that - AFAICS - competes with Davis products. In other words, the Davis acquisition is more to plug a gap in the prosumer segment of the AEM platform. How things pan out in a couple of years' time is difficult to predict of course. No doubt we will start see AEM's involvement in maybe changing current priorities at Davis.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6822
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2019, 10:34:25 AM »
So maybe Davis gets lumped into an AEM company. Maybe Lambrecht anemometer makes it into the Davis lineup as you suggest. But those AEM companies seem to work autonomously mostly I think. Take a look at High Sierra an AEM company.

https://www.hsierra.com/applications/weather-stations/

Yup that's an RM Young! No competition you say?

« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 10:38:04 AM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4827
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2019, 10:48:27 AM »
Yup that's an RM Young! No competition you say?

That's not competition for Davis stations - completely different price sector.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6822
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2019, 12:25:10 PM »
Yup that's an RM Young! No competition you say?

That's not competition for Davis stations - completely different price sector.


Valid point. I'm just saying that I'd like to see some evidence of dogfooding across subsidiaries. We will see what happens.

As for those of you rushing out to get a 2nd VP2 as backup...if I had a VP2 and something newer came out I'd replace the VP2 old technology, not stock up on a second unit as backup. A new ISS will probably address some shortcomings of the current ISS. There is a very high probability that if a new a ISS came out it would be compatible with the WLL or a simple firmware update would fix it so that is is compatible. There is some chance for the VP2/Vue consoles to continue to work and maybe a firmware update there too fixes it. Regardless I'm sure that there will be years of replacement parts available to support their user base of VP2 stations. So the choice if to upgrade to a new ISS or display will be that...just a choice with continued support for those that need it. So I don't get the stock up on extra VP2 mentality. Lastly if your VP2 works then nothing wrong with keeping it around long into the introduction of a new model.

My point is that the VP2 will long have since been replaced before parts actually disappear. Just as I'm sure Weather Monitor and Wizard parts were probably available for a good few years after the VP2 was introduced. Davis isn't going to force you to upgrade to whatever new thing comes out....at least not for a long time. Will we see another green dot issue in the supply chain you say? I'd bet no.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 12:27:54 PM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline CW2274

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6731
    • Conditions @ CW2274 West Tucson-Painted Hills Ranch
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2019, 04:02:15 PM »
I think it'll be very interesting to see what they do with this particular market niche. Hopefully they'll not dumb it down even more than their repeated stating of "lower middle-market industrial technology". Frankly, right or wrong, to me, makes them sound cheap.

I find it rather appropriate given Davis not a Vaisala nor an RM Young.
Ya don't say....well, it's not an Ambient either, that's my point. I'm not talking about current Davis products (call them what you want), I'm talking about their wording and the "impression" it leaves with me for potential future products, that's my "simple" concern. Not trying to put the cart ahead of the horse, I merely do not want to see lesser of a product, if change is coming, make it up, not down.
Probably gettin' all lathered up for nothin', then, maybe not...

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4827
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2019, 04:29:00 PM »
@CW2774: If I had to put any money on it (which is probably a pretty stupid idea!), my guess would be that VP3 - if it ever happens - will use ZigBee as the wireless protocol just like the Davis EM system. Actually, the wireless protocol is relatively unimportant but the point is the architecture of EM and the software platform to support it (which weatherlink.com already does) which makes possible a much wider selection of sensors than the limitations that the VP2 architecture imposes. It's not only that a diverse collection of different sensor types is possible, but you can choose the sophistication & cost of a given sensor. So a basic version of my putative VP3 would use inexpensive sensors much like a current VP2. But if you wanted to use a higher-end anemometer or T/H sensor or whatever then that would be possible too. This does mean that a traditional console doesn't fit easily into this picture (because it's difficult to predict what mix of sensors you might want) and so we might go more down the WLL plus tablet interface route.

IOW, sensors from other parts of the AEM empire could potentially be used.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 04:32:00 PM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline CW2274

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6731
    • Conditions @ CW2274 West Tucson-Painted Hills Ranch
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2019, 05:09:06 PM »
Thanks John, I hope your "vision" is correct. It's just that we've all seen what buyouts can do to a particular product. Lets see, ah yes, perfect example....think IBM and WU. (insert arm out mic drop) ;)

Offline miraculon

  • Sunrise Side Weather
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4107
  • KE8DAF
    • Sunrise Side Weather in Rogers City MI USA
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2019, 08:51:27 AM »
@CW2774: If I had to put any money on it (which is probably a pretty stupid idea!), my guess would be that VP3 - if it ever happens - will use ZigBee as the wireless protocol just like the Davis EM system. Actually, the wireless protocol is relatively unimportant but the point is the architecture of EM and the software platform to support it (which weatherlink.com already does) which makes possible a much wider selection of sensors than the limitations that the VP2 architecture imposes. It's not only that a diverse collection of different sensor types is possible, but you can choose the sophistication & cost of a given sensor. So a basic version of my putative VP3 would use inexpensive sensors much like a current VP2. But if you wanted to use a higher-end anemometer or T/H sensor or whatever then that would be possible too. This does mean that a traditional console doesn't fit easily into this picture (because it's difficult to predict what mix of sensors you might want) and so we might go more down the WLL plus tablet interface route.

IOW, sensors from other parts of the AEM empire could potentially be used.

I am not too keen on zigbee as an RF communications means for the Davis stations.

This from Wiki fits with my experience with Smartthings:

Quote
Its low power consumption limits transmission distances to 10–100 meters line-of-sight, depending on power output and environmental characteristics.

I do like the current RF performance in terms of range. I realize that the number of stations is limited, but I still have as spare channel with all the devices I have now.

I can see all kinds of applications becoming unfeasible if Davis drops the current FHSS scheme. Of course they might be able to sell more zigbee mesh nodes...

Greg H.


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4827
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2019, 09:09:26 AM »
[I am not too keen on zigbee as an RF communications means for the Davis stations.

Sorry, that's my fault for taking the thread OT - maybe we need a separate ZigBee thread? But for the record and from personal experience, the Davis EM nodes do at least as well as the VP2 transmitters in terms of range. Actually, Davis claim 'up to 4000ft' vs the 3000 ft for the VP2, but I don't know how well validated that might be.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline Jasiu

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 947
    • LexMAWeather
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2019, 10:56:31 AM »
Quote
Union Park takes a long-term perspective to help stakeholders build value over time and drives value creation through profitably growing a business, not financial engineering.

Hopefully this is true and Union Park isn't one of the many capital companies that acquires, squeezes for all the $$ they can get, and then leaves customers and employees on the side of the road. I haven't looked into any previous acquisitions yet to see how they panned out.
https://lexmaweather.info
On Mastodon: @LexMAWeather@toot.community

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2136
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2019, 09:56:30 PM »
We obviously have some uncertain times ahead, time will tell I suppose.

Offline wsNoordbergum

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
    • wsNoordbergum
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2019, 10:19:36 AM »
This is not good news....or?
An investment company wants PROFIT...if there is no profit, then.......
On the other hand, if some money is invested then new products can be developed and the company can expand.....

We'll see how it goes.

wsNoordbergum
Davis Vantage Pro 2 UV/Solar
Meteobridge nano SD
Ecowitt WS90 WH40 WH31 WH57 GW2000 HP2550_c
CumulusMX/raspberry Pi 4b

Offline SoMDWx

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1015
    • Southern Maryland Weather
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2019, 12:50:31 PM »
nothing to see here...... :roll:

Online WheatonRon

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1237
    • WUnderground
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2019, 06:46:06 PM »
As Johnd stated earlier, we probably won’t know what this means to the Davis product line for the next 6-12 months. My guess, very little will happen. The prior owners probably wanted to cash out and the numbers wouldn’t support an IPO, so this transaction makes a lot of sense, at least to the prior owners. The product line will likely stay pretty much in tact and the chances of a VP3? If the new owners can do it without a lot a capital, maybe, but since that may require a fair amount of cash, who knows? Maybe in the short-term they can fix (i.e., replace) the VP2 inconsistent (temperamental) SHT31 humidity-temperature sensor and take it from there. The addition of the aerocone and the spoon tipper were really small enhancements, but it likely showed to Union Park that Davis management was still trying to improve the VP2 without having to create a whole new product, which we enthusiasts have termed a VP3.

The new owners, Union Park Capital, have only been in business since 2012 (per their website). Not a lot of track record to reflect on. That’s not a positive or a negative, just a fact. However, on paper, they serve a valuable service to small businesses that are trying to “continue their dream” that is, continue the business concept and provide a financial exit for the prior owners.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 11:13:10 PM by WheatonRon »
Davis VP2 with SHT31 (3 complete VP2 systems—2 with a daytime fan and 1 that has a 24 hour fan); CWOP--CW5020, FW3075 and FW4350; WU--KILWHEAT17, KILWHEAT36 and KILWHEAT39; WeatherCloud.net; CoCoRaHS--IL-DP-132; and Weatherlink 2.0

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
Re: For discerning hobbyists :-) - Davis purchased by Union Park
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2019, 07:37:22 PM »
I hope the new investor owners stop treating the world outside NA as the bastard children of the Earth. That in itself would be a win.

 

anything