Author Topic: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches  (Read 5486 times)

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Offline oregonalex

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Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« on: February 13, 2008, 02:44:53 AM »
I have a Wireless Vantage Pro 2 with a separate anemometer transmitter, console firmware 1.73 connected via USB to WeatherLink 5.7.1.

There are other Wireless Vantage Pro 2 stations nearby with transmitter ID=1 and 2, so I have mine set to ID=3 for the ISS and ID=6 for the WIND (there is no anemometer on the ISS). All other IDs are disabled.

This works fine most of the time. Occasionally, maybe once a week or so, the downloaded records in the WL Browse window indicate that suddenly the received anemometer transmitter ID=1. This persists for a few hours and then it goes back to the correct ID=6.

I have been able to confirm that the records with the bogus Wind Tx match EXACTLY the time WeatherLink was closed. Reopening WeatherLink fixes it and the Wind Tx goes back to 6 for the subsequent records. Unfortunately, most of the time WL can be closed with no ill effects so it is not easily demonstrable.

For example:
Code: [Select]
                     Wind  Wind Wind  Hi    Hi    Wind   Wind  ISS     Arc.
Date        Time     Speed Dir  Run   Speed Dir   Samp   Tx    Recept  Int.
01/22/2008  02:45    3     E    0.75  10    E     306    6     100     15
01/22/2008  03:00    2     E    0.5   7     ESE   307    6     100     15
01/22/2008  03:15    0     NW   0     4     NNW   312    6     100     15
01/22/2008  03:30    0     NNE  0     2     NW    312    1     91.2    15
01/22/2008  03:45    0     NNE  0     1     NNE   314    1     91.8    15
01/22/2008  04:00    0     NNE  0     1     NNE   313    1     91.5    15
...
01/22/2008  07:00    0     NE   0     3     NNE   312    1     91.2    15
01/22/2008  07:15    1     NE   0.25  4     NE    313    1     91.5    15
01/22/2008  07:30    0     E    0     2     E     312    6     100     15
01/22/2008  07:45    0     ENE  0     3     NE    313    6     100     15

Note how the reception goes worse when it switches to 1 as the nearby station is at some distance. So it is likely that it indeed stops receiving my wind and goes to the neighbors.

Davis tech support and engineering have not been able to reproduce it and say that it is impossible. Well, I've got the logs to prove it...

So, I am asking if anyone who uses a separate anemometer transmitter could look back through your Browse records to see if there is anything fishy with the Wind Tx column. It would help gaining some credibility if it were not just me having this problem.

Any other idea or suggestion would be much appreciated, too.

Thanks,

Alex Khain
Portland, Oregon, USA

Offline George Richardson

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2008, 07:59:10 AM »
Alex,

Can't be any help on the remote anemometer. But the question for me is ; why is WeatherLink closed?

George

Offline oregonalex

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2008, 08:26:12 AM »
> Why is WeatherLink closed?

Because I do not have a dedicated weather PC that runs 24/7. I rely on the console datalogger to buffer the weather data when the PC is shut down or WL is closed because I do something critical on the PC and do not want the WL download message popping up all the time.

Alex Khain
Portland, Oregon, USA

Offline Anole

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2008, 08:42:51 AM »
So, I am asking if anyone who uses a separate anemometer transmitter could look back through your Browse records to see if there is anything fishy with the Wind Tx column. It would help gaining some credibility if it were not just me having this problem.

Any other idea or suggestion would be much appreciated, too.

Thanks,

Alex Khain
Portland, Oregon, USA

Nothing odd here, but I do have the PC running 24/7.

I have to say that's a really strange problem. Grasping straws here, and I'd have to think you've tried this already, but have you tried setting everything back to factory defaults and then reconfiguring?

Battery issues can cause all kinds of weird problems with electronics so it might be worth a battery change if you haven't tried that as well.

Offline ocala

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2008, 03:30:34 PM »
Alex, I scrolled back 8 days and never found mine changing from 3. I doubt it's an issue with WL because all it does is copy the info from the data logger.
The fact that the reception dropped when it did change is strange but a reading of 91 is still quite good.
I would contact the other PWS owners and see if the data is the same as yours when it changes.
Also as Anole mentioned, changing it back to the factory default may help.
The transmitter receives up to 1000 feet. How close are the other two stations?
I would think that the reception would be much lower if indeed the console is picking them up. Also what other obstructions are in direct line with your transmitter?
The blues had a baby and they named it Rock & Roll

Offline oregonalex

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2008, 05:04:58 PM »
Thanks guys for your suggestions.

Yes, I did try resetting the ID to default and back using both WL and console setup. Davis tech support made me mess with it a lot while trying to figure it out.

The battery idea is good. I'll replace the battery in the wind transmitter, even though the diagnostic says battery OK. The console is on AC.

Contacting the other station owners is a good idea too, but I do not know who they are! They must be really close because my reception of these stations is quite good. My neighborhood is in Portland's 'Silicon Forest' so I am not that surprised at the density of stations around. But they don't appear to be on WU and I don't know how else to find them.

Anyway, I am also going to change the ID for the wind transmitter to something else. Possibly there could be some intermittent interference (?another station?) causing the console to drop to default. Not very likely, but could not hurt to change.

Thanks again,

Alex Khain
Portland, Oregon, USA

Offline andro700

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 09:53:52 AM »
I run my wind transmitter on channel 2 with no issues at all. I also have a USB connection. I have no problems with it. I just checked my records and has always been on channel 2. Have you tried using channel 1 for the ISS and channel for channel 2 or is the other stations interfering with yours? How close are the stations to you? Just curious! One other thing if I remember correctly the higher the channel the less packets per minute will be received. I could be wrong though.

Chuck

Offline ocala

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 12:21:05 PM »
Question Alex.
You say your reception of these stations is quite good. How do you know that? If you disable the ISS do you pick up the data from them?
 The farthest the ISS will transmit without a repeater is a 1000 feet. You really only need to look in a 1000 foot radius from your house to find to find them. I would assume that they have their anny's mounted on their roofs, so just look around and hopefully you should see them.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 12:22:59 PM by ocala »
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Offline oregonalex

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 05:00:46 PM »
The other stations are a curious thing. When I bought my station a couple of years back, it was of course factory set to ID=1. During the initial testing with the anemometer on the ISS, about 30ft from the console, I noticed that the reception was about 70-80 and the console would register wind even when my anemometer was motionless. I asked Davis what could be the problem and they thought my anemometer was defective. Before sending it back, it just occured to me that there may be interference, so I switched the ISS to ID=3 and lo and behold, in the console setup station 1 still popped up in addition to 3. I disabled all except 3 and the reception went to 100 and the wind reported started matching the movement of my anemometer. So it looks like the console was receiving and mixing data from both anemometers! Later I moved my anemometer to a separate transmitter that I set to ID=6 (that showed as empty in the setup at the time). It is on the outside of the house about 15 ft from the console (through a wall).

Recently when messing with the setup for a solution to my current problem, I noticed that both stations 1 and 2 are detected in console setup in addition to my 3 and 6, so either the former station 1 got another transmitter or a completely new station popped up in the neighborhood.

My neighborhood has dense mature pine and fir trees in every yard and the backyards are very private. I walk through the neighboring streets all the time always keeping my eyes open for an anemometer peeking out, but no luck so far. I'm thinking of putting up notices on lampposts, maybe the owner would call.

As I expressed to Davis, I think this station address system is underdesigned. There is just no good way to detect that someone around bought a new station and set it to my address. There should be a unique serial number for each transmitter and it should be explicitly selected in the console. Then there would be no problems like these. That's, for example, how my wireless scuba computer is set up and it works perfectly.

Alex Khain
Portland, Oregon, USA

Offline ocala

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008, 06:12:26 PM »
Alex I'm assuming you did this but I have to ask. When you changed the ID on the ISS did you also change the ID on the console? They have to match. Again I had to ask.
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Offline George Richardson

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2008, 06:45:12 PM »
Alex,

I know we live in a world where "I" never does anything wrong but I have found that if I'm willing to take the blame, others are more willing to help me correct the error in my ways. I say that as a preface to suggesting that you might knock on neighbors doors to say that you have noticed some irregularities in your Davis weather station and you want to be sure it isn't adversely affecting affecting theirs, if they have one. You could have a printed note and a prepared spiel depending on whether someone was home or not. If your neighbors station is putting out 91.5% reception they must be close.

Another suggestion would be to disconnect your remote transmitter the next time it happens to be sure it isn't your station sending spurious signals. I have seen this in my business recently where it just couldn't happen, but did.

Finally, you did say USB connection and that always throws a red flag.

Your description does infer a data logger buffer problem which might be seen in power outages if the haves and have nots were close Davis users.

FWIW

George

Offline capeweather

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2008, 08:42:02 PM »
Why don't you try turning off your entire ISS and transmitter and see if you could pick up all the data on the other possible station in your neighborhood? It's worth a shot if you are only picking up wind. And if you do pick up temp, humidity and other variables then walk around the neighborhood with the console and measure the signal strenght. Obviously the higher it gets the closer you are to the other possible station.

Chris
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Offline oregonalex

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2008, 02:42:53 AM »
> When you changed the ID on the ISS did you also change the ID on the console?

Oh yes, as I said earlier, I did it and re-did it several times from both the console and from WL. All the other IDs are properly disabled except 3 (ISS) and 6 (WIND).

> power outages

My console has both AC and batteries and I did try to unplug it from the power socket and it did not trigger the problem. Besides, there has not been a power outage here for months.

> walk around the neighborhood with the console and measure the signal strength

Good technique, that would work. Even if it does not help with the problem, I am dying to know who the other weather geeks are  :-)
I just hope that if I walk around the neighborhood with a device with an antenna and peek into peoples' backyards I don't end up at the local precinct or worse  :shock:

In any case, no matter what these stations send, my console should NOT switch to ID 1 by itself. Davis support confirmed that (quote from their e-mail):

Quote
Engineering informs me and I have verified here that the wind TX column is determined by the setup only. If for instance, I have wind on ID 8, Iss on address 7 and another station running but not on is on address # 1 Then when download occurs

Wind TX is 8.

If I turn the wind # 8 off then the Wind TX column when downloaded shows the ISS Address # 7.

If that is turned off it goes to default ISS address # 1.

I tested this throughout our e-mailings and have found that this is true and happens all the time here consistently.

> Finally, you did say USB connection and that always throws a red flag.

Yep, I agree. It has been my prime suspect all along since the problem seems to be triggered by shutting down WL. I would not be surprised if the serial/USB bridge that WL uses sent some garbage data to the console upon shutdown, which could sometimes accidentaly reset the address assignments.

Yesterday I have upgraded WL to 5.8.0 and switched the communication to pure USB that is now available in the program. So far so good, the transfers seem faster. I'll see if this fixes it, it has not happened since, but it is too early for any conclusion. I'll refrain from making any more modifications or experiments until it happens again so that I know in case the upgrade fixed it.

Regards,

Alex Khain
Portland, Oregon, USA

Offline oregonalex

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Re: Wind Transmitter ID - Spurious Switches
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2008, 03:09:22 AM »
Alas, 5.8.0 with direct USB did not fix the problem. Closed WL, reopened after 15 mins and the new record came in wrong. Then I closed WL five more times and no problem.

Moreover, the direct USB monopolized 20-50% CPU time even when minimized and hit the disk incessantly. So I spent several hours trying to go back to serial emulation - not as easy as one would think - see the 5.8.0 thread.

I also went to console setup and noticed that when scanning for active IDs, it finds 1,2,3 quickly, then it takes a while to show 6. I am sure it goes sequentialy, but still...

The next step - check/replace battery in the wind transmitter and switch it to ID=4 in case there is some interference on 6.

Regards,

Alex Khain
Portland, Oregon, USA