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Offline NewWeatherMan

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Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« on: June 10, 2013, 03:26:46 PM »
Hello to all.  Been doing much reading of the forum and have some questions about the various Weather Stations and capabilities.

First off, let me state that I have been researching the various different weather stations available over the last couple of months and have pretty much already made the determination as to which Weather Station manufacture that I am going to go with but I have a couple of questions that I need from experienced users about setup locations, capabilities, and known issues that I may have concerning given my locations.

As a preamble, I am located in Seffner, Florida about half way between Tampa to the west and Plant City to the east, along the I4 artery that runs east-west across central Florida, 2 miles east of the Interstate4/Interstate 75 interchange.  I live on slightly more that 1/3 of an acre that has large trees in the front yard and some open areas in the back of the house.  I have a pool in the back yard that is not enclosed so I have a body of water that can affect the immediate climate as far as temp and humidity are concerned.  The front of the house faces West and the rear faces East.  I live on a mild slight downwards slope with the high ground to the West and the high elevation to the west (about 1/4 mile away) is about 15 feet higher than my property.  There are large trees throughout the neighborhood.  I get full sunlight in the back yard from about 1/2 hour after sun rise to about 6PM, depending on the time of year.

I have been researching various weather stations to fit my needs and have some questions concerning them.  Let me say at first that my budget is limited to no more than $1K which also has to include any software, dongles, PC hook-ups, and mounting of the system.  Less would be very nice but I do not think that I can get what I want for under $600 for the station alone.  I also want an expandable system so that I may add on to it later.  My wife has a vegetable garden that we grow veggies for three seasons of the year, fall, winter, and spring.  So the ability to monitor soil moisture and leaf wetness for irrigation purposes is a capability that I will eventually want.

Some of the requirements that I have is that it has to be expandable, and would prefer that it runs on solar (wireless) instead of a cabled system but this is not a deal breaker.  However, the needed hardware for a cabled system will make a cabled unit almost as expensive as a wireless unit.  Due to the constraints that I have place on the weather system, I am looking at either a Davis unit or the pending WMR300 unit from Oregon Scientific.  However, I do have to state that I am concerned if I go with the WMR300 system because of the issues that I have discovered with lack of support from OS from what I have read on the "net".  I am also concerned that there will be another push back on the release of the WMR300 as well as the availability of the current non existent, future add on sensors that they claim will be available at some future date.  Based on my conversations with OS, this unit was suppose to be release in Jan 13, and now has been pushed back to Aug or Sep 13 and I suspect that it will be pushed back again to a latter date.  Also, pricing of the unit is not available per my conversation with OS, but from what I read, it is suppose to be comparable with the high end Davis units.  I am also concerned that the WMR300 is a bastardized Davis unit from what I have read about it. As a result, I am leaning more towards narrowing my choices to the Davis 6152, 6153, 6162, or 6163 units, with my leanings more toward the 6153 or 6163 units and this is based solely on the 24 hour aspiration fan, which given my location, is probably a requirement for accurate temperature and humidity readings.  I have also looked at Rainwise MKIIII and their cost.  While near the upper end Davis units cost wise, they are not expandable so they do not meet one of my major requirements for expandability.

Of the Davis units that I am looking at, I really do not need the solar sensor but like the UV sensor as my back yard is in full sun most of the day and given the amount of time we spend in the back yard, I consider is a must.  No matter how I try to configure the lower end Davis units that I am looking at though, it appears that a unit with the solar and UV sensors and the 12 hour aspiration fan is only about $50 less than a unit with the UV and solar sensors, and with the 24 hour aspiration fan.  As an example, if you take the 6153 and add the UV sensor with the shelf, is it more expensive than the 6163 unit that comes with the UV and solar sensor.  If you take the 6152 unit and add the UV sensor, mounting shelf, and 12 hour fan, it comes out to about $807 with the software, and the 6163 has the added 24 hour fan and Solar Sensor for just $70 more.  These prices include the dongle and software package as well.

I have checked the various sales sites and have tried to configure the units through many iterations with different parts from different sellers and pricing is almost identical, to within 10%.  But if you include the taxes that some have to collect, the 10% savings is lost.  This is based on research on the "best pricing" quotes from Archer, Rainman, Weather Shack, as well as others.  As a Floridian, both Archer and Rainman have to charge me the tax and while Archer has a great sale on the UV sensor and has great pricing for the mounting shelf and 12 hour aspiration fan, for a few dollars more I can upgrade to the 6163 and get the solar sensor as well.

So now on to the questions. 

Oregon Scientific WMR300 unit. 

I have read the thread and other threads concerning this unit but as I stated, I have a fear that the delivery of the system will again be pushed back, the support is less than desirable, the "future" sensors are iffy right now, there is no pricing available, but it does include a software package that does connect/talk to a PC as well as weather software. 
Are these fears justified? 
Does anyone know what the pricing of the WMR300 will be?
Does anyone have any more information as to the supposes expandability of the sensors and what their pricing will be other than what is posted on the corporate web site and is listed in the PDF users file?
When will these additional sensors will be available?
What will these additional sensors will collect?
Does the wireless unit utilize frequency hopping?
How robust is the software package suppose to be?
Is the "upside down" placement of the anemometer a potential problem?
Is it a comparable unit with the added on future sensors along the lines of the Davis 6153 or 6163 units?

Davis Units:

Is there a way to hook up the console to the PC without the use of the proprietary dongle that is available without having to "build" one? 
Does someone make a after market unit that they sell that is comparable with the proprietary dongle?
Is the software that comes with the dongle as bad and antiquated as what is posted on line, ie "its so 80ish"?
Are there other software packages that can be used on the PC with the Davis units?
Is the 'dongle' required for PC connectivity?
How is the main unit updated through firmware iterations? 
Do you need to purchase an additional firmware update unit just to update the firmware on the console?
Is the "Weather Bug" systems just a Davis re-branded unit with an included 'dongle' for PC connectivity but with the "Weather Bug" software package and not the Davis weather software?
Can the wireless Davis weather sensor units be broken apart and placed in different places using extension cables to the main wireless sending unit or are additional sending units required for this?

Placement and Connectivity:

Why are the wireless units more desirable than the cabled units other than cable routing?
If using a cabled unit, what additional hardware requirements are needed for cable routing to prevent electrical spiking?
How do any of the units deal with lightning as I live in what is described as the "lightning capitol of the world"?
Should the mounting structure (metal pole mast) have a grounding rod and what gauge copper wire should be used for grounding?
If I use a non conductive pole (fiberglass) is grounding of the sensor units still required?
How far from standing trees do you need to place the anemometer to get accurate readings and what is the ideal height to place the unit?
Considering I have some high trees nearby, will that cause inaccurate anemometer readings?
How do you prevent birds and small rodents from staying off the rain collector units?  Are there after market, for less of a better word, critter prevention screens or something?
Does it really matter where you place an aspirated temp/hum sensor as I have read that the best placement for these sensors is about 6 feet off the ground in a shaded area on the north side of the house? 
What would be an ideal distance from a body of water (pool) to place the temp/hum sensors?

I apologize for the long winded post but I want to make sure that I am fully versed on the ins and outs of a weather station before I take the plunge.








Offline PaulMy

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 03:48:25 PM »
Welcome to the forum NewWeatherMan, and you have been reading the forums and doing your homework.  Perhaps you have already read this as well, and it is still a work in progress ;) http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=18841.msg181847#msg181847

To your questions, I will reply to one of them
Quote
Are there other software packages that can be used on the PC with the Davis units?
Yes, many, and Cumulus is one.

Good luck and I suspect there will be all kinds of suggestions and comments,
Paul

Offline George Richardson

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 04:23:33 PM »
Don't try to nickle and dime this. First, read, study, and plan with this: http://smlweather.com/downloads/CWOP_Guide.pdf . Plan to do the best you can but remember, no one has a "perfect" site, other than those living in the middle of an airport. Next, if you chose Davis, I suggest you go with a local guy; Archer Trading Post. Finally, you could go with a 6152 to start and add as desired over time. With Archer, everything is eventually available. Especially in Florida, with your lightning, you shouldn't go with a cabled system. I have 2 Davis 6152's both of which have been upgraded; one with day FARS and one with 24hr FARS. In my opinion, day FARS is useless.

FWIW

George

Offline NewWeatherMan

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 05:10:51 PM »
@ PaulMy:  Thanks for the welcome.  I did read the link and it did pose some helpful information.

@ George:  Thanks.  I figured about the nickle dime effect of trying to build a unit.  Also, I am interested in your observations of the FARS ans why you do not consider it useful.  Can you elaborate more on this subject?  Have you done a comparison as to why you think that the FARS does not help with accurate temp readings?  Is it a matter of climate location, or other issues that you feel that do not warrant the use of the FARS?

Offline George Richardson

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 09:26:07 PM »
"I figured about the nickle dime effect of trying to build a unit"  I really wasn't talking about trying to "build" a unit but more about support a "local" dealer can give. The "Day FARS" does not turn on until 10:00 AM on a sunny day and off every time a cloud drifts by. The fan moves very little air so unless you have stagnant air I doubt even the 24 hr. FARS will help you and the point is, if you get the std model and after a year of data collection you see that the breezes do go calm for many hours and days on end and your data does not reflect your surrounding stations, you would be able to add 24 hrs FARS at only a small premium. If you would like to peruse my data, my 24hr FARS station is CW6097 and KVAMONET1 while my Day FARS station is DW5974 and KVAMONET4. They both go back to well before I added the FARS' which was a little over a year ago. You can see the two units at http://www.smlweather.com/downloads/North2.jpg

FWIW

George

Offline Intheswamp

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2013, 12:13:25 AM »
If you're thinking of getting the VP2 and a UV sensor then go for a VP2+ for a little more and you get the solar sensor, too.  I think you will get more meaningful/useful data out of the solar sensor than you will the UV sensor.  If I was to choose one or the other I'd go with the solar sensor.

I'm a newbie, having my station "online" only since May 30th but I have been thoroughly impressed with the Davis quality.

PaulMy mentioned Cumulus...it has worked great for me, it was easy to set up, and it has a nice, easy to navigate local screen.

I'd definitely look Ryan (www.archertradingpost.com) up, he's over in Gainesville, I believe.

Your life will be much easier with one of the Davis dataloggers.  The older consoles would work with some 3rd party dongles but apparently that changed with console firmware v3.xx.  There are some smart users on here that I feel are working on a work-around...but I haven't seen where there's been success...yet. ;)

If a direct lightning strike hits the outdoor station the station will deal with the strike by smoking, dripping melted plastic and possibly welding together any metal-on-metal connections...will also probably leave somewhat of a charred look to things and a disagreeable smell. :shock:   Good grounding, though, will help dissipate/bleed off static electricity charges that might build up on the pole/station thus possibly reducing the likelihood of a lightning strike. :)

Best wishes,
Ed

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Offline txweather.org

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2013, 09:22:10 AM »
If you're thinking of getting the VP2 and a UV sensor then go for a VP2+ for a little more and you get the solar sensor, too.  I think you will get more meaningful/useful data out of the solar sensor than you will the UV sensor.  If I was to choose one or the other I'd go with the solar sensor.

I'm a newbie, having my station "online" only since May 30th but I have been thoroughly impressed with the Davis quality.

PaulMy mentioned Cumulus...it has worked great for me, it was easy to set up, and it has a nice, easy to navigate local screen.

I'd definitely look Ryan (www.archertradingpost.com) up, he's over in Gainesville, I believe.

Your life will be much easier with one of the Davis dataloggers.  The older consoles would work with some 3rd party dongles but apparently that changed with console firmware v3.xx.  There are some smart users on here that I feel are working on a work-around...but I haven't seen where there's been success...yet. ;)

If a direct lightning strike hits the outdoor station the station will deal with the strike by smoking, dripping melted plastic and possibly welding together any metal-on-metal connections...will also probably leave somewhat of a charred look to things and a disagreeable smell. :shock:   Good grounding, though, will help dissipate/bleed off static electricity charges that might build up on the pole/station thus possibly reducing the likelihood of a lightning strike. :)

Best wishes,
Ed

I want to follow up with my 2c here...

+1 for Ryan (www.archertradingpost.com). He is awesome and his customer service is out standing.

+2 for Davis Weather system. I do not regret my purchase at all. The only regret I have is that I should of bought a Pro2 instead of the Vue though I still like the Vue.

Regarding the ground Ed is right. There is nothing that can help you on a direct strike. I have mine grounded to a copper ground bar to eliminate static and to hope that if I ever (knock on wood) get a direct hit that it wont arch.

Good luck!

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Offline NewWeatherMan

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2013, 04:32:50 PM »
@ George:  Thanks again for your reply.  Nice setups you have.  My main concern is that being in Florida, there are many summer days where the air is stagnant and during the winter when we have potential frosts, I fear that the reading that I will get without the FARS will not be accurate.  I can see why you would not want a daytime FARS if the fan shuts off each time a cloud rolls by.  The FARS in the 6153/63 are 24 hour FARS with the battery back-up and by your comments I think that I am reading that you are OK with the 24 hour FARS units?  Is this correct?  Given that I have read that there could be as much as a +/- 3 degree difference between the FARS and the regular radiation shielding in units that do not move air, I felt that it would better suit my needs due to climate conditions were I am at.  I have noticed over the years that frost is spotty at best here unless there is a deep freeze.  The area where I will be placing the ISS would be considered a "low" spot as far as terrain is concerned and as each of my neighbors all have pools, the unit will be located more or less in the center of the rectangle with the pools at the four corners.  Closest proximity to the nearest pool will be about 25 feet.  I appreciate your response and your views on the FARS.

@Inthewswamp:  Thanks for the link.  I have already looked at the Archer and he does have great pricing.  Unfortunately for me, as a Floridian, Ryan would have to charge me a sales tax and that makes his units (dep[ending on unit selection) almost $80 more than what I can get at another dealer.  I will contact Ryan to make sure that what is quoted in the "best price" quote is really the best that he can do.  I prefer to shop at home but given the amount of savings, it is hard to not go the least expensive route.

I had already reviewed the Cumulus software and am leaning toward that for the interim until I can do a good review of all that are available.  Also, after doing some more research, I also figured out that the Davis data logger was probably going to have to be a must have if I wanted to have the Davis console talk to the PC.  Agree on the lightning as a direct hit.  Did not word the question properly.  What I meant to ask was to how to "minimize" the chances of a direct hit and whether grounding was a requirement if I used a non conductive post made of fiberglass or other non conducting material.  I suspect that I will keep the FARS unit and Rain Gauge at about the 3' to 6' level and put the anemometer at a higher level, probably about 15 feet.  Would like to go higher but the neighbors as well as my wife will not go along with it.  Not that anyone but my wife has a say but I would want to take the neighbors and their perspectives on what they would like or not like to view from their vantage points.  Thanks for the wishes and I also believe that the Davis VP2+ will be the route I go.

I had thought that the UV sensor was required for the THSW index but I see by looking at the specifications that it is not required.  Missed that little tidbit.  I may be able to drop the cost of this sensor to lower the overall price some and go with the 6152/3 with add on Solar and shelf.  I will have to do the math to see if it is worth dropping the UV sensor.  It can always be added on latter if I deem it necessary and I can always get the local UV from the local weather guys or even the paper.  This may actually work out better going the 6152/3 unit with the solar sensor and shelf bought at Archer.  I will pose this to the 3 main dealers that I am looking at right now to see what is the best bottom line I can get from various setups.  Thanks for that tidbit.

Also I think I agree with the Davis data logger.  Was hoping for an alternative but considering support issues, you do get what you pay for and I am pretty sure that Davis would not support a third party logger.  Guess this is the part where you pay a little more for better support.

@xcom:  Thanks for the reply.  Am glad that you like the Davis units and am sorry to hear that you wish you would have gone to the upper end.  I looked hard at the Vue but felt that it did not meet my overall needs so with your reply, I feel more secure knowing that by opting for the higher end units I will have saved myself some learning curve pains.  Will also follow up with Ryan.  Have not read anything but positive reviews from the people that have gone with him.

Can someone comment on the firmware versions of the console and whether there is an additional unit that is needed for firmware upgrade?

Thanks again to all who have responded.  Even though I had thought that I had a good understanding of what sensors did what, I was incorrect so this thread has already helped tremendously.




Offline smorris

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2013, 05:33:15 PM »
Thant's too bad about the taxes. Rainman Weather, the other highly recommended vendor is also in Florida: http://www.rainmanweather.com/site/Davis-Instruments-Best-Price-Quote

Ambient Weather is now doing the special discount pages, too, and they are in Arizona. Check these out compared to elsewhere.
http://www.ambientweather.com/ddisc.html

Steve
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Offline VaJim

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2013, 05:34:37 PM »
I have also looked at Rainwise MKIIII and their cost.  While near the upper end Davis units cost wise, they are not expandable so they do not meet one of my major requirements for expandability.




...not sure what you mean by 'expandable'..... :eek:

Offline moehoward4

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2013, 06:26:14 PM »
www.archertradingpost.com/atp      Better prices than the site without the  '/atp'
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 06:35:19 PM by moehoward4 »
3 Davis set-ups...which one ya wanna talk about? And I got ALL my manuals....

Offline Intheswamp

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2013, 07:54:16 PM »
Definitely a better price...I pm'd him the link to /atp/ site...I wasn't sure whether it was cool to post it in public or not.  I guess it really isn't a big thing, eh. :)

Ed

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Offline NewWeatherMan

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2013, 09:20:30 PM »
I have also looked at Rainwise MKIIII and their cost.  While near the upper end Davis units cost wise, they are not expandable so they do not meet one of my major requirements for expandability.




...not sure what you mean by 'expandable'..... :eek:

Based on the documentation that I have read including the PDF file for the MKIII, it does not appear that there are additional sensors that can be added to the unit, like soil moisture, leaf wetness, soil temp.

I read the PDF and looked at their site extensively but could not find any additional sensors as mentioned that can be added to the unit.  Maybe I am looking in the wrong area?

Offline NewWeatherMan

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2013, 09:22:56 PM »
Thant's too bad about the taxes. Rainman Weather, the other highly recommended vendor is also in Florida: http://www.rainmanweather.com/site/Davis-Instruments-Best-Price-Quote

Ambient Weather is now doing the special discount pages, too, and they are in Arizona. Check these out compared to elsewhere.
http://www.ambientweather.com/ddisc.html

Steve

I also checked out the ambient weather site and their prices for the Davis units are more expensive that what I have been able to find elsewhere, this was looking at the additional discount pricing that they sent the link for at their site.  In actuality, their site was the first one that I started doing extensive research on looking at various units.


Offline VaJim

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2013, 05:55:03 AM »
I have also looked at Rainwise MKIIII and their cost.  While near the upper end Davis units cost wise, they are not expandable so they do not meet one of my major requirements for expandability.




...not sure what you mean by 'expandable'..... :eek:

Based on the documentation that I have read including the PDF file for the MKIII, it does not appear that there are additional sensors that can be added to the unit, like soil moisture, leaf wetness, soil temp.

I read the PDF and looked at their site extensively but could not find any additional sensors as mentioned that can be added to the unit.  Maybe I am looking in the wrong area?


I suggest you call Rainwise and ask for Lonnie White.  You'll be surprised.  Good luck!

Lonnie White
(207) 288-5169 Ext. 106

Offline NewWeatherMan

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2013, 12:24:54 PM »
I have also looked at Rainwise MKIIII and their cost.  While near the upper end Davis units cost wise, they are not expandable so they do not meet one of my major requirements for expandability.




...not sure what you mean by 'expandable'..... :eek:

Based on the documentation that I have read including the PDF file for the MKIII, it does not appear that there are additional sensors that can be added to the unit, like soil moisture, leaf wetness, soil temp.

I read the PDF and looked at their site extensively but could not find any additional sensors as mentioned that can be added to the unit.  Maybe I am looking in the wrong area?


I suggest you call Rainwise and ask for Lonnie White.  You'll be surprised.  Good luck!

Lonnie White
(207) 288-5169 Ext. 106

I have a call into Lonnie and waiting a return phone call.  However, speaking with the ambient weather sales people, he again re-iterated that the MKIII is not an expandable unit where other sensors can be added on.  Also the best price range for the unit, console, and data logger PC connectivity is well over $1200 which is outside my price range.

I will wait for Lonnie's call to make a final determination as to whether I will eliminate this unit from my choices but by all appearances, the non-expandable sensor suite and price range are both killers for me at this time.

Thank you for your reply though as it did make me go back and look at the unit again.


Offline Intheswamp

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Re: Hello - Another "Which One" thread
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2013, 10:26:20 PM »
I hope this wasn't like responding to a Craigslist ad and never beeing seen again...  :shock:

NewWeatherMan...you still out there?

Ed

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