Topic: PM disappeared

[Jáchym]

Hi,
a very strange thing happened to me this morning. Maybe I dont know exactly how this forum works, but this is what happened:

I have email notifications set for every new PM I get and it seems to be working perfectly fine.

However, this morning I had an email from the WX forum, with the standard format:

You have just been sent a personal message by **** on WXforum.net.

IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email.

The message they sent you was:

********

Reply to this Personal Message here: http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;f=inbox;pmsg=****;quote;u=****

Now, this looks all fine, so I went here to the forum and I see I have 0 new messages. I look inside my message folder, and indeed there is no PM from this user, not read nor unread. It is just gone. I can obviously even read its content in the mail, but where is it?

And, when I try clicking the likn in the email for reply, I get a forum page with the following text:

An Error Has Occurred!
You are not allowed to access this section

Im not sure what this means. As far as I know, it is not possible to delete already sent messages and the message was absolutely ok in terms of its content, so no reason why even some admin would delete it. But again, I dont know 100% how the PMs work, which is why I now ask here.

[mcrossley]

I think you can delete a pm after it has been sent, so long as it hasn't been read.

[Jáchym]

Ok, thats what I was asking, my understanding was that "deleting a PM" means you delete it from your PM list, just like when you delete an email from your Sent items, but that it has no effect on the recipient, in other words you are only deleting it from your personal inbox/outbox, but the message as such cannot be taken back. Plus in this case it would make no sense to me why the user would have deleted it... it was a valid suggestion for a new feature...

[saratogaWX]

In the Messages, Outbox, there is an option to Delete a specific sent message, so the sender may have used that option.

I didn't find a specific permission to allow/disallow deleting of PMs that a member has created.  I do know that in regular posts, a topic started by a member can't be deleted (by topic) if there are replies to the topic, but individual posts in a thread can be deleted.

Best regards,
Ken

[Jáchym]

OK Ken,
in that case he must have deleted it before I read it.... well I did sort of read it in the email, which is why it makes no sense to me... it was a suggestion for a block and actually a good one...

OT: I must say I don´t really like this system, I think it should not be possible (apart from admin of course) to delete any sent messages and most importantly, also threads and posts. This often creates confusion when one replies to something and the other person either deletes their post altogether or modifies it. I think that it should just stay like that. One should think twice before posting, but then, it should just stay the way it is.

I also remember that at least once I looked like an idiot, because I replied to something and the person then changed it so my reply got a completely new meaning.

[mcrossley]

If your tryping is as bad as mine, you frequently need to go back and edit posts! 

Other forums I am on don't give you the PM contents in the notification, so you are none the wiser of what it said if the sender deletes it before you read it on-line.

[Jáchym]

I see your point with correcting typos etc.,  but doing that means you press the Post button and then re-read it. In this case if you knew it cannot be taken back you would re-read before posting and sometimes this really creates confusion or even misinterpretation.

[saratogaWX]

I'm only familiar with SMF and phpBB forums.  As Mark cites, the phpBB forums do not include text..just the notification itself.  SMF can be set either way, and we've selected to send the text in notification messages.  Sometimes (despite the admonition to NOT reply to the notification message) folks will reply to the notification via email, and I'll have to reply to them via email letting them know to do their reply via the forum.  Fortunately, that is not a frequent thing

I remember (in the old days) that several company mail systems I'd used had the ability to recall a sent message -- was a lifesaver to the 'reply all' oops.  I guess that the SMF folks just thought that might be useful here.  There is no permission setting I found to enable/disable that function for PMs.  It is available for topics and posts, but as I said, topics can't be deleted by the author unless there are no replies.

[Jáchym]

I know, I think having the content in the email is actually good... I can now ask the person why they deleted it.

But there should be an option in SMF too to really disable any post edits, I really think that can be problematic in some cases. There were situations when someone for example was verbally insulting other users, I tried to calm them down, now I was polite, but it was not a really "nice post" - however in the light of his posts, it was very nice... then he deleted it/edited it and I looked like an idiot...

Other times you read some replies and they make no sense because the previous message was edited (unless the person replies using the quote feature )

[saratogaWX]

I know, I think having the content in the email is actually good... I can now ask the person why they deleted it.

But there should be an option in SMF too to really disable any post edits, I really think that can be problematic in some cases. There were situations when someone for example was verbally insulting other users, I tried to calm them down, now I was polite, but it was not a really "nice post" - however in the light of his posts, it was very nice... then he deleted it/edited it and I looked like an idiot...

Other times you read some replies and they make no sense because the previous message was edited (unless the person replies using the quote feature )

That's why I always use the Quote feature for replies... it preserves the content of the post you are replying to in a way that the original poster cannot modify/remove
It is especially helpful when trying to quell inappropriate posting behavior with a rational response and preserve the thread against post editing.  You 'own' your posts in topics and are free to modify them after posting.  I use that feature a lot when on-the-fly writing code and remembered I'd forgot a ; at the end of the line...

[Jáchym]

I know Ken, but it does become slightly problematic when you are quoting a person who quoted someone who quoted someone who quoted... you get the point, the size of your posts then grows incrementally

[saratogaWX]

True.. but a bit of pruning to extract the post from the other debris works too

That's usually the outmost [quote]...[quote] set.

[Jáchym]

I know and I do that sometimes too, but it does take time, sometimes people accidentally delete incorrect pair and it is then just a total mess I know, Im picky... either way, I asked that person if they deleted the PM and why

[WeatherHost]

That's why I always use the Quote feature for replies... it preserves the content of the post you are replying to in a way that the original poster cannot modify/remove

It is especially helpful when trying to quell inappropriate posting behavior with a rational response and preserve the thread against post editing.  You 'own' your posts in topics and are free to modify them after posting. 

Been a long time since I was in an SMF Admin Control Panel.  Isn't there an Edit Timeout where Users can only edit their own posts for XX minutes?  Allows for proofreading and typo correction before it gets set in stone.

[saratogaWX]

When writing a post/PM, you can stay on the screen quite a while.. and pressing Preview instead of Save/Send renews the session so you're free to edit as you like.  After saving a post, any modify action within a couple of minutes won't change the post to 'Edited'.. after that time, the Edited: info will appear.

[WeatherHost]

^^  But after 30 minutes or so, board posts should be frozen -- not editable.  I've seen some boards go as long as two hours.

[saratogaWX]

^^  But after 30 minutes or so, board posts should be frozen -- not editable.  I've seen some boards go as long as two hours.

That's not a feature I've seen in SMF -- there's only 'edit/no edit' as a permission.  Would you mind expanding on the reasoning behind a time limit to freeze board posts?

[WeatherHost]

Would you mind expanding on the reasoning behind a time limit to freeze board posts?

Your words above:

That's why I always use the Quote feature for replies... it preserves the content of the post you are replying to in a way that the original poster cannot modify/remove
It is especially helpful when trying to quell inappropriate posting behavior with a rational response and preserve the thread against post editing.

Personally, I don't really care.

[Jáchym]

Could it be this?

https://theadminzone.com/threads/permission-to-disable-editing-after-a-while.17422/

[saratogaWX]

Ahh.. a relatively obscure setting

Number of minutes allowed to pass before a user can no longer edit a post they have made. Set to 0 disable.

Note: This will not affect any user who has permission to edit other people's posts.

We have it currently set to 0 (disabled).  It's been that way since the forum started.. never saw any reason to hunt for the setting, nor change it's default.