Topic: 2810 Rain Not Reset

[jetpuf]

Did you make modifications to the rain collector? or just manipulate the data that is being uploaded to the web? I have an idea for modifying the sensor... maybe some sort of cover for half of the collector?, I'd be interested to see what you've come up with.

[DanS]

Yes, making internal adjustments to the gauge itself. I personally don't like "bandaid" fixes where you cover up the issue with software adjustments if the discrepancy can be corrected. The bucket stops are just plastic walls and I'm playing with removing these and replacing them with machine threaded screws for adjustments (like LaCrosse should have done in the first place. Cutting costs I suppose).

[jetpuf]

interesting. does the rain gauge measure rotation on the shaft as the buckets are emptied out or does it simply count buckets?

if it measures rotation than you're on to something. if it's measuring buckets filled with X amount of fluid I dont see how this would work.

In any even I'm interested to see pictures and a write-up on what you have done. It's the rainy season here.

[DanS]

The bucket tips are measured using a small magnet on the bucket assembly itself. The magnet passes a reed switch mounted close by. Each reed switch closure is counted as a bucket tip. Raising the stop adjustments speeds up the tip counts and lower these stops, slows the counts. It's a very fine adjustment process that's why the machine threaded screws.

[DanS]

The first pic is what it looks like originally. 2nd pic shows the two bucket stop walls cut out and replaced with stainless machine threaded screws. 3rd pic shows view from the bottom and 4th pic reassembled (notice in this pic how much further the bucket needed to drop from the factory setting on the wall). I chose the screws inserted from the bottom so adjustments could be made without removing the bucket assembly.
Pouring 260ml of water (=1" rain) through countless times gave readings in the range of 40 bucket tips with screws almost all the way out up to 65 tips with them inserted fully.
I left the adjustments at 25 tips for just over 130ml (1/2" rain) of water for now to see how it does against the manual gauge with the next rain shower. Even left like this it's much closer than it was out of the box.

[DanS]

This morning I had nothing planned and I'm very anxious to see how the gauge performs after the mods so I tried out my rain gauge cal/checker (http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=6764.0) to see how close everything was. The rain gauge read 0.60" for the calculated 130.3 ml of water poured through on the first check. I took the gauge down and adjusted the screws out 1 turn and ran more water through. Now it reads 0.50" or close for each time and, as I said previously, I just have to wait for the rains to return for the real test.

[DanS]

Last night we had our first thunderstorm since the gauge modifications were made. The results are now tracking the manual gauge and the 2310's readings very closely. Last night's rain shows about .17" on the manual and 2810's gauges (placed next to each other) and .15" up on the 2310's gauge (roof level). We had high winds at that time so I'm not confident with comparing to the 2310 but at least feel the 2810 gauge correction worked.

[sam2004gp]

Good Job, wish I had all the free time you have.

[VaJim]

nice work Dan.  If my 2810 makes it out of 'probation' I'll go back and re-read your notes.

[SlowModem]

Last night we had our first thunderstorm since the gauge modifications were made. The results are now tracking the manual gauge and the 2310's readings very closely. Last night's rain shows about .17" on the manual and 2810's gauges (placed next to each other) and .15" up on the 2310's gauge (roof level). We had high winds at that time so I'm not confident with comparing to the 2310 but at least feel the 2810 gauge correction worked.

[VaJim]

Although it may not be as accurate as Dan's mod......I modified the rain gauge by reducing the capture area. Today we got some snow and my Rainwise recorded.01″…then….02″ The 2810 showed .02″ Not sure if it went from .01″ but I did get the same result. Monday we’re suppose to get some real rain so I’ll let you know how it measures up.
Here’s a link to some pictures I took:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vajim/

The pic of the 2810 is the original (back to Costco). The 2nd one is in the same place.

Parts list:

1 lid to plastic butter container (4.5″ diameter)

1 lid to Noxema shave creame

[SlowModem]

Although it may not be as accurate as Dan's mod......I modified the rain gauge by reducing the capture area.

That's some original thinking!  Good job!   

[VaJim]

UPDATE on the rain gauge....today we got our first measurable rain since I did the mod.  Here's what my stations reported:

Lacrosse 2810:        .38
Rainwise:                .26
Davis Vantage Vue:  .24

Although the Lacrosse is still not there, it's getting close.  Once we dry out I'm going to remove the cap from the Lacrosse and check the seal around the cup.

[DanS]

Good job there VaJim. Zeroing in on it! The way I figure it, you should have a 3.182" opening if the original error is exactly doubling (2x) the readings.

[weather1967]

The first pic is what it looks like originally. 2nd pic shows the two bucket stop walls cut out and replaced with stainless machine threaded screws. 3rd pic shows view from the bottom and 4th pic reassembled (notice in this pic how much further the bucket needed to drop from the factory setting on the wall). I chose the screws inserted from the bottom so adjustments could be made without removing the bucket assembly.
Pouring 260ml of water (=1" rain) through countless times gave readings in the range of 40 bucket tips with screws almost all the way out up to 65 tips with them inserted fully.
I left the adjustments at 25 tips for just over 130ml (1/2" rain) of water for now to see how it does against the manual gauge with the next rain shower. Even left like this it's much closer than it was out of the box.

Great job Dan congratulation,I like the clever solution with screw for you going depth ,the tiping bucket,and it make little more time to go again up,for show the correct rainfall and you resolve the problem
I hope you put a nuts -safety at two screws,for it not go up-down easy,and you loose the correct tuning for the tipping bucket.
I will make other modification for this problem ,i will make smaller the surface at collector.
Any way i like your solution
Now i saw this topic ,if i understand well 2810 rain gauge have a small problem,it show more mm from normal analogue rain gauge (cocorahs) ?
Because i do not understand about inch but i know from mm measurements .Do you can tell me how mm it show more for the normal ?
Thank you

Keep up the good work  

[DanS]

Hi Dimitris and thanks.
The WS-2810 appears to be made with the rain gauge reading near 2 times the actual rainfall. Inches or mm measured is doubled when compared to an analogue gauge. I personally believe that the system was developed with the firmware in the console set to read twice what this gauge resolution is set for. What I did is adjust the buckets to tip half as often as factory setting to more closely match the firmware. The adjustment is the same when converting in inches or mm when you just cut in half.  VaJim has done this using another approach, cutting the collector opening area down.

[weather1967]

Ok Dan i understand the problem,no have same corelation with console from firmware problem,this is a big defferents double mm or inch  
Because i saw the rain gauge 2800-2810 http://www.nouveauxobjets.com/2800.php  it the same with 3650 model  http://www.nouveauxobjets.com/3650.php do you know if the same problems had and they work 3650 operator ?

[DanS]

That's interesting Dimitris. I had the impression that possibly the gauge for the 2810 was "borrowed" from another system and just some designer confusion between the .01" / .02" (.25mm/.5mm)  hardware / software setup. Seen that happen before (didn't NASA recently have a similar thing happen with a rover enroute to Mars?).  Your observation with the 3650 gauge makes this a very real possibility.

[VaJim]

...also it's worth noting that if you look at the 2810 manual, it says the rain gauge measures 5.18" diameter, yet when you actually measure it, it's more like 4.5" diameter.  What's that all about?  I tend to agree with Dan in that somewhere, some how they pushed/packaged the wrong display to the wrong gauge.

[DanS]

Yes, they measure the mount/base dimensions not the actual collection area at the top. It is indeed, like you say, 4.5". If you make adjustments using the mount dimensions you'll get all screwed up.

[VaJim]

..good catch Dan!...their measurement of the base/mount makes sense in needing to know the space required for mounting.  I used the top measurement for my intake mod.

Yes, they measure the mount/base dimensions not the actual collection area at the top. It is indeed, like you say, 4.5". If you make adjustments using the mount dimensions you'll get all screwed up.

[VaJim]

Dan:  Another question on your 2810 rain gauge mod, does yours now get the display to actually show increments of .01"?  Does it move from .01, .02, .03, etc?

[DanS]

Mine has always incremented in steps of .02". Just too fast/often in it's original configuration. Now if we could get some rain here to see it in action.

[lou]

[img]http://www.4shared.com/file/237123692/29533807/2810_Rain_Gauge.html
/img]

Having the same problem as everyone else with the rain gauge double the actual amount, I've used this approach.  I used a flex 4" to 3" coupling, with a 2-1/2" PVC coupling inserted into the flex coupling ( these are nice water tight joints).  The PVC coupling was beveled on the inside and outside edges to give it a sharp  diameter of 3.130".  We have had some rain and the results are :

Manual Gauge       1.37"
2810                   1.35"

During this storm there was lots of wind and heavy downpours at times, so I do not plan on making any adjustments until further data is collected.

[VaJim]

Nice job Lou ....nice pic.  Now if I can just see your shopping list..(Home Depot/Lowes?)