Topic: I really need help shopping for IP camera / webcam equipment

[Alyeskan]

Shopping for a webcam has been frustrating and exhausting. I'm building a website for an oceanfront tourist town and mounting a camera outside that points over the ocean at the morning sunrise.

The site requires jpgs uploaded every 60 seconds, and I need photographic quality. "High resolution" means nothing if the camera isn't capable of good exposures, which I'm finding nonexistent in IP cameras? I need photos of predawn sunrises and the moonlight reflecting off water (quality like the Reykjavik, Iceland webcam or these Alaska webcams.)

As far as I can tell, I have two choices:

1) A Stardot Netcam (way out of project's budget!)
2) The Olympus digital camera with SebecTec software (which requires I run a dedicated computer 24/7, and worse, buy a new computer because SebecTec software isn't compatible with my Mac.)

Ideally, I want an IP camera so I don't have to run a computer 24/7 to keep the website live. But, as far as I can tell (?) nearly all IP cameras:

1) Take grainy, mediocre quality images with limited dynamic ranges, even during perfect daylight conditions.
2) Use IR technology that destroys night photos, (and without IR enabled, can't take night / low light photos at all)

Can I accomplish this website without spending over a thousand dollars on a Stardot? Or a thousand dollars setting up the SebecTec system?

I've read dozens of threads here, and this community sure knows its stuff. I'd appreciate any guidance or advice!?

[Aardvark]

my foscams do a good job.  Scroll down about half the page and they are  there.   the downside of how I have them is inside the house and if it is dark outside the wife turns on the inside light and they are not working .  Next summer I intend on getting  a camera outsidehttp://www.desmoinesweather.org/webcam.htm

these are taken with FI8910W's.  Foscam makes IP cameras that go outside.  You could then just have your modem running, the camera's will upload to a webpage or you can access them remotely.  I have mine updating every 15 seconds.    The camera next year,  I am going to run electrical out to the camera and have it outside so I can use the IR on it.

We have a good electrician who can do anything by the job, not the hour  in Des Moines and I am having him install another outdoor outlet and run then the power from that.  That is if I live that long. I am 66 getting up there.

[nincehelser]

It sounds like your demands are pretty high.

In order to get a better idea of what you require, could you take and post some test shots representative of what you want to achieve?  In other words, go out and take a manual series of pictures of your actual target, format them as needed, and post them?

Otherwise, you could be expecting a level of quality technically impossible if not difficult for an automated system.   Some sun/moon shots can be terribly disappointing without careful consideration of the type of lens used.  Then there's the issue of the sun moving over the course of the year...you have to consider if you can make manual adjustments to the camera over the year or be satisfied with a wide-angle view that's guaranteed to get everything year-round.

My gut says a low-cost IP cam isn't going to be enough to match your artistic vision, but maybe I'm wrong.  Representative photo mock-ups would give us a better idea.


 

[sebeclake]

It is possible to run SebecTec on a Mac.  I haven't tried it myself but someone mentioned they did using Bootcamp I believe.  Bootcamp for the Mac: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1461 Parallels is product can run Mac and Windows apps at the same time: http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/  I don't have a Mac but I'm sure there are others knowledgeable about running Windows on a Mac.

-Mike

[nincehelser]

It is possible to run SebecTec on a Mac.  I haven't tried it myself but someone mentioned they did using Bootcamp I believe.  Bootcamp for the Mac: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1461 Parallels is product can run Mac and Windows apps at the same time: http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/  I don't have a Mac but I'm sure there are others knowledgeable about running Windows on a Mac.

-Mike

Bootcamp will get you a great Windows PC on Mac hardware.  It's probably better than most native Windows PCs in my experience.  However, it would mean forever dedicating the Mac to running Windows for this application.

Parallels is a possible option, but it involves sharing of the machine between Windows and MacOS.  If someone needs to do something serious on the Mac side, it could impact Windows performance.  The worst possible case is that a user hard-crashes or turns off the Mac accidentally, causing the site to go belly-up.

[n7xrd]

Why not just pick up a one of the $299  laptops they have on special all the time and dedicate that to the project!!??

[Bushman]

It is too bad you missed Stardot's Black Friday sale.  For $500 or so you could have solved your problem.  I would call and ask if they might toss you a bone.

[smorris]

It is possible to run SebecTec on a Mac.  I haven't tried it myself but someone mentioned they did using Bootcamp I believe.  Bootcamp for the Mac: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1461 Parallels is product can run Mac and Windows apps at the same time: http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/  I don't have a Mac but I'm sure there are others knowledgeable about running Windows on a Mac.

-Mike

Bootcamp will get you a great Windows PC on Mac hardware.  It's probably better than most native Windows PCs in my experience.  However, it would mean forever dedicating the Mac to running Windows for this application.

Parallels is a possible option, but it involves sharing of the machine between Windows and MacOS.  If someone needs to do something serious on the Mac side, it could impact Windows performance.  The worst possible case is that a user hard-crashes or turns off the Mac accidentally, causing the site to go belly-up.

I'm running all my weather stuff (and all my everyday software on my 27" 16 GB RAM iMac. Bootcamp isn't an option for me, or else I couldn't run everything else. I was running Mike's SebecTec software under Parallels earlier year, but was having problems with a hard drive causing frequent crashes. I haven't got it up and running since replacing the drive.

Now that I'm on Mac OSX 10.9 Mavericks, RAM gets allocated weirdly, and Windows XP Pro on Parallels 8 eats up RAM like crazy. I don't know if Parallels 9 is an improvement, as I haven't made the $50 upgrade.

Anyway, if you've got the RAM, you can do what you ask with the Olympus, Parallels, Windows, and SebecTec. Or pick up a used Windows machine and run on that.

Steve

[cospringswx]

Just get an Axis 211 and call it a day.

[Bushman]

Just get an Axis 211 and call it a day.

Discontinued product.  You have to go to the 1343 or 1113.

[sebeclake]

I like the Olympus SP500UZ - but I may be biased...   Here are some views using this cam:

Mt Katahdin, Maine: http://www.neoc.com/webcam/twin-pines-webcam-camera1.php
Mt. Agamenticus, Maine: http://www.agamenticus.org/index.php/mt-a-webcam
Brewery construction, NH: http://towlefarm.com/
Portsmouth cams: http://www.portsmouthwebcam.com/
Poulsbo, WA: http://www.siteground315.com/~longship/index_big.html
Skunkbay weather, Seattle: http://www.skunkbayweather.com/SkunkBayWebcam.html
Mt. Whitney, CA: http://whitneyportalstore.com/

-Mike

[Alyeskan]

Thanks for all your replies!

nincehelser, here's a sample image - the sample is 1280px wide, but for me, it's less about size and more about the dynamic range, color, exposure, and shadow detail: http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8854/i5lh.jpg

Bottom line? The more I think about it, the more I realize an IP camera is my only choice. I don't want to use my Mac laptop, and I don't want to buy a another computer just to facilitate a webcam. It's a waste of energy and expensive.

So, given my need for quality images, the Stardot is really the only choice? Hayskswx, does the Axis 211 come close to Stardot quality? (Does anyone know where I can see sample images?)

Thanks to all again.

Oh, and I agree Mike -- your Olympus system is truly great. However, I really need/want and IP system. Can you transform an Olympus into an IP camera?

[cospringswx]

Below is my Axis 211 cam. There are no street lights around my place at all. Pretty good image at night.

http://www.hayskansasweather.com/NNWskycam2.php

[nincehelser]

Thanks for all your replies!

nincehelser, here's a sample image - the sample is 1280px wide, but for me, it's less about size and more about the dynamic range, color, exposure, and shadow detail: http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8854/i5lh.jpg

That's what I was afraid of.  Exposure is pretty subjective.  I don't know how you are going to expect a machine to consistently pick a balance to your liking.  I mean, at certain times of the day you'll get a picture an image that looks pretty good, but at other it may just be ...meh....  Sure, you can go full-auto, but a machine isn't always going to pick the best possible settings for you every time.

I think your expectations are too high, especially for an IP cam.  A good camera driven by a computer with some really excellent software is your best bet.

The suggestions people are giving here are good, I'm just concerned they're not going to live up to your expectations, especially if you go the budget route.

[smorris]

OK, after saying I hadn't used Mike's SebecTec software on Mac OS X 10.9 Mavericks yet, I figured it was time to try. We are supposed to get snow overnight, so I set the Olympus up, booted Windows XP Pro in Parallels 8 on my 27" iMac, downloaded the latest SebecTec software, and it is now up and running.

It is the third image down on my www.avon-weather.com web page. (The second image is from my new Sharx Security's not yet released top of the line IP camera for reference, Alyeskan)

Steve

[Alyeskan]

Thank you, nincehelser. You're right, my expectations don't seem to match the available technology in my budget. For what it's worth, the photo I uploaded was taken with little point-and-shoot, $100, six-year-old Nikon Coolpix, set to automatic. Not exactly pro quality, but decent enough. I'm disappointed to learn so few IP cameras can't match the quality of a basic digital camera.

Hayskswx and Bushman - I looked at the Axis 211, and I notice several on Ebay have different brand lenses - like Pentax, Tamron, etc. Does the Axis 211 have an interchangeable lens mount? If so, I can change/upgrade the lens, if needed? (I'm hoping this means the quality can be improved?) Anyone have any experience or advice about different lenses on the Axis 211?

[Alyeskan]

Thanks, Steve! The Sebectec images are far-and-away the best webcam pics I've seen when it comes to exposure, noise, and low light capability. If only I could rig up an IP system with a digital camera and Sebectec software, I'd be thrilled!

The Sharx IP cams all have IR, correct? Infrared ruins scenic photos at sunset/sunrise (which is what I want to publish most.) Can you turn IR off? If so, how does the Sharx handle low light?

[smorris]

The Sharx IP cams all have IR, correct? Infrared ruins scenic photos at sunset/sunrise (which is what I want to publish most.) Can you turn IR off? If so, how does the Sharx handle low light?

Yes, you can set the IR to be on, off, or auto. Unlike most IR cameras, the Sharx moves an IR lens in front of the daytime lens when it switches on. You can also control the IR lamps.



As for dawn and dusk performance, it starts to get pretty grainy just before switchover. Easiest way to judge is to watch Steve's Dacula Weather and my middle image approaching sunset (4:59 EST for me) and see for yourself. My images update every five minutes, so you'll have to refresh the screen.

Steve

[sebeclake]

One thing I found out about the Olympus SP500uz is that it delivers good exposure and color in very cold weather.  Here is a view at Madawaska, Maine - way up there: http://www.fourseasonstrail.org/pages/WebCam/index.html  Its -14F at the moment.   This is Moosehead Lake, Maine.  Camera is on a tower on Blair Hill into its 3rd year of operation: http://mooseheadlake.us/  It is -6F this morning.  

You can come close to making the Olympus into an IP cam.  I have used a nettop computer co-located with the camera and then use the nettop wireless to make the connection back to the router  or run a network cable.  You can run low voltage dc out to the computer and camera on a separate cable.  

[Bushman]

I wonder if something like this would work (although not with the Olympus)  http://fstoppers.com/ipad

[smorris]

I wonder if something like this would work (although not with the Olympus)  http://fstoppers.com/ipad

I've got an Eye-Fi card for my daughter's Nikon 3100, and while it neatly transfers the image to an iPhone or iPad, you still need to do something with it from there. As far as I know, there's not an easy way to FTP images from an iPad to a server.

Eye-Fi can also send the image to iPhoto on a Mac across a local network.

But in both cases you'd need something to fire the camera at the desired time.

[Cutty Sark Sailor]

OK, after saying I hadn't used Mike's SebecTec software on Mac OS X 10.9 Mavericks yet, I figured it was time to try. We are supposed to get snow overnight, so I set the Olympus up, booted Windows XP Pro in Parallels 8 on my 27" iMac, downloaded the latest SebecTec software, and it is now up and running.

It is the third image down on my www.avon-weather.com web page. (The second image is from my new Sharx Security's not yet released top of the line IP camera for reference, Alyeskan)

Steve

Great, Steve.  Just wondered if that first image is the Hubble test cam from a few months ago?
Mike

[cospringswx]

Thank you, nincehelser. You're right, my expectations don't seem to match the available technology in my budget. For what it's worth, the photo I uploaded was taken with little point-and-shoot, $100, six-year-old Nikon Coolpix, set to automatic. Not exactly pro quality, but decent enough. I'm disappointed to learn so few IP cameras can't match the quality of a basic digital camera.

Hayskswx and Bushman - I looked at the Axis 211, and I notice several on Ebay have different brand lenses - like Pentax, Tamron, etc. Does the Axis 211 have an interchangeable lens mount? If so, I can change/upgrade the lens, if needed? (I'm hoping this means the quality can be improved?) Anyone have any experience or advice about different lenses on the Axis 211?

My Axis has the Tamron lense. I'm sure you could change the lense since they sell replacements.

[smorris]

Great, Steve.  Just wondered if that first image is the Hubble test cam from a few months ago?
Mike

Yes Mike, it is.

Top photo is a Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000 with the Hubble diopter fix, looking directly south out of my dining room window.
Second photo is the Sharx Security SCNO3905 looking at my garden and weather station.
This photo is from my second SCN3905 looking at the road in front of my house.



All three of the above are captured using Evological.com's EvoCam 3.75 on my Mac running OS X 10.9 Mavericks.

The third image on the web site is taken with the Olympus SP-500UZ, and processed using Mike's SebecTec Webcam Ultra v3.6.3 on my Mac via Parallels 8 and Windows XP Pro.

Steve

[Geoff MW6GCN]

Don't know if or not you have seen the Ip cam at aldi shops only £49
and it is wireless also has pan and tilt I can't remember the name of
it but it but I did check it out on the aldi web site, if I can find the link
I will edit this post to put a link on.

 http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hotukdeals.com%2Fdeals%2Fmaginon-wireless-ip-camera-aldi-sunday-special-10th-march-49-99-1492944&ei=kOCtUqq7D8bxhQeys4CQCQ&usg=AFQjCNGGDfYQg7YSksj4uWjEAtdmE6vXBg

Geoff