Author Topic: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?  (Read 166774 times)

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Offline pfletch101

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #325 on: November 18, 2014, 02:59:04 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that attaching an external power supply, which is essentially what he is doing (from the point of view of the Vue), leaves the internal 3V battery available to take over if the 'external' supply fails ...

Here's what Durman said:

...... 3V, which I feed directly to the battery terminals of the vantage vue.

I assume that Durman means that the battery is not present in the battery holder.  And that the external supply is attached to the terminals that previously held the battery.  [Clarification awaited]

Attaching an external supply directly across a non-rechargeable battery (without some sort of isolation or protection) is a "do not do that".  From Durman's obvious demonstrated knowledge, I'm rather sure that isn't news.

I am sure that you are right. I missed that part of the description and had assumed that the Vue had an existing (built-in) external power supply connection, which would have had the necessary protection and which he was using.
Vantage Pro 2+ connected to Raspberry Pi running weewx by means of Meteo-Pi - data incorporated in domestic energy production (PV) and use monitoring system.

Offline Durman

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #326 on: November 18, 2014, 03:06:58 PM »
Hi Guys, and thanks for the comments.
Dalecoy you're right...there are only 2 power sources; the supercap is dead. There isn't a battery in the battery compartment because it simply isn't necessary; its simply been moved from inside, supersized, then enclosed outside.
The Vue requires the 3V lithium cell only as a 3rd source when a functional supercap discharges completely, and this is where my external supply kicks in....I have a perpetually discharged supercap. The system is still powered by the solar panel within the ISS during daylight, and my external battery is charged during the day also (by the big 5W solar panel). At night, when the system attempts to draw power from the supercap and gets none, it switches over to the 3V (12V stepped down) battery, which feeds it happily through the night, and has more than enough capacity than the supercap could ever provide.
As a system test, I covered the ISS solar panel (the integrated little solar cell) to see if the external supply could provide adequately for its diurnal needs. It worked day after day perfectly fine, being supplied essentially from the 3V battery source only.
The number of power sources doesn't matter; the ISS just needs one good, clean, steady 24-7 supply and it will work fine. Rather quality than quantity!
Durability wise, the solar panel, buck converter and solar charge regulator are all solid-state, hardy components with good lifespan. The little lead-acid battery will need replacing in about 2-3 years, but its a cheap thing.
I mulled over the option of replacing the defective part within the ISS (the mainboard with the supercap encased in resin) but realised that I would be dealing with this problem again in the future, so decided on a more durable fix; that it works so well and at a fraction of the price is a bonus.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #327 on: November 18, 2014, 04:33:08 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.


The number of power sources doesn't matter; the ISS just needs one good, clean, steady 24-7 supply and it will work fine. Rather quality than quantity....!

... The little lead-acid battery will need replacing in about 2-3 years, but its a cheap thing.

The number of power sources certainly does matter.  Your Vue had 3 - and when the supercap died, then there were just 2.  And one of those required frequent (costly) replacement.

So, you have fixed that problem.  And 2-3 years, when your Vue no longer works through the night, you'll replace the lead-acid battery rather than the 3-volt battery.

That's an excellent "field repair" for the supercap failure. 

I was just answering pfletch101's question about why Davis doesn't do it that way.

When the supercap is functional, it is technically the same as your add-on (equivalent to a battery charged by solar), with the benefit of the 3rd (3-volt battery) power source.

Offline pfletch101

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #328 on: November 18, 2014, 05:47:59 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.


The number of power sources doesn't matter; the ISS just needs one good, clean, steady 24-7 supply and it will work fine. Rather quality than quantity....!

... The little lead-acid battery will need replacing in about 2-3 years, but its a cheap thing.

The number of power sources certainly does matter.  Your Vue had 3 - and when the supercap died, then there were just 2.  And one of those required frequent (costly) replacement.

So, you have fixed that problem.  And 2-3 years, when your Vue no longer works through the night, you'll replace the lead-acid battery rather than the 3-volt battery.

That's an excellent "field repair" for the supercap failure. 

I was just answering pfletch101's question about why Davis doesn't do it that way.

When the supercap is functional, it is technically the same as your add-on (equivalent to a battery charged by solar), with the benefit of the 3rd (3-volt battery) power source.

I think I would be happy with Davis's approach if the supercap were 'modularized' or otherwise reasonably easily field-replaceable, or if supercap failures were vanishingly rare. The first proviso certainly isn't true, and I have the strong impression from reports here that the second isn't, either. Given that there is no reason to think that the circuitry around the supercap is likely to be less complex or more reliable than the rather similar circuitry that would be needed round a rechargeable battery, I would rather have a rechargeable battery that I can replace regularly than a supercap which requires major surgery to work around or replace if/when it fails. Indeed, I would simply substitute the supercap and necessary circuitry with a replaceable rechargeable battery and its necessary circuitry and leave the 3-Volt backup battery in the design.
Vantage Pro 2+ connected to Raspberry Pi running weewx by means of Meteo-Pi - data incorporated in domestic energy production (PV) and use monitoring system.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #329 on: November 18, 2014, 06:00:57 PM »
Agreed. 

On the other hand, my VP2 which is 9 years old has never had a supercap failure.

...and it has been "on the air" continuously (24/7) except for the time we were relocating from New Mexico to Missouri...

...because I have it connected to a UPS (battery backup system), and we have a natural-gas-powered generator with automatic start and switchover when the commercial power fails.....

......... and the VP2 is the cabled model .....   :grin:

Offline srhodes

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #330 on: November 24, 2014, 09:35:06 AM »
Thanks for the clarification.


The number of power sources doesn't matter; the ISS just needs one good, clean, steady 24-7 supply and it will work fine. Rather quality than quantity....!

... The little lead-acid battery will need replacing in about 2-3 years, but its a cheap thing.

The number of power sources certainly does matter.  Your Vue had 3 - and when the supercap died, then there were just 2.  And one of those required frequent (costly) replacement.

So, you have fixed that problem.  And 2-3 years, when your Vue no longer works through the night, you'll replace the lead-acid battery rather than the 3-volt battery.

That's an excellent "field repair" for the supercap failure. 

I was just answering pfletch101's question about why Davis doesn't do it that way.

When the supercap is functional, it is technically the same as your add-on (equivalent to a battery charged by solar), with the benefit of the 3rd (3-volt battery) power source.

I think I would be happy with Davis's approach if the supercap were 'modularized' or otherwise reasonably easily field-replaceable, or if supercap failures were vanishingly rare. The first proviso certainly isn't true, and I have the strong impression from reports here that the second isn't, either. Given that there is no reason to think that the circuitry around the supercap is likely to be less complex or more reliable than the rather similar circuitry that would be needed round a rechargeable battery, I would rather have a rechargeable battery that I can replace regularly than a supercap which requires major surgery to work around or replace if/when it fails. Indeed, I would simply substitute the supercap and necessary circuitry with a replaceable rechargeable battery and its necessary circuitry and leave the 3-Volt backup battery in the design.


Hello pfletch
Thanks for the info on the workaround for the supercap. I think we all can agree that Davis' super cap is really supercRap and the system needs a design and quality improvement. I am perfectly happy with two sources of power supply for my VV. You won't be able to convince Dalecoy of the need for any less than three sources though. I know that this is a WX forum and what i am about to say Is Heresy BUT...it is just a weather station Dalecoy and not a life support system for a hospital. Give it a rest dude!! Thanks again Pfletch for the info!!

Offline EA1EF

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #331 on: December 07, 2014, 06:15:25 PM »
recent i buy a Davis Vantage VUE (USA version) with the battery problem....

the propietary report that only on sunny conditions work the ISS and baterry goes down on few days...

the VUE ISS are deplorably (dark, vane crashed, lost screws, etc) but repair it (vane can repair with central steel insert of 2 cm and two componets glue)... finally go to source problem:

- dissamble all modules (take photos for mount) and take ISS transmitter module.

- on ISS module remove carefully the potted on supercap zone for can cut both PINS

- when supercap are isolate from PCB try to charge it (apply 3v correct pollarity) need one or two minutes charging for complete charge.. and quickly test supercap voltage (must be 2,85v fully charged)

- wait a few minutes (5 to 15 or more) repose and test voltage again...  my supercap lost in 5 minutes to 1,5v and stabilize it. (50F 2.7v supercaps remain one week from 2.7 to 2.5v)

- The bad supercap cant remobe because are potted but easyly can add other supercap outside with two drill, separate bad supercap pins and solde new supercap pins to PCB (see polarity)

my Davis vantage VUE console mark always "low battery trasnmitter" advise but you can test battery voltages from weatherlink (with datalogger) in WEATHERLINK - WINDOW - ALARM AND BATTERY STATUS -> and here say STATION BATTERY OK when console say low... (much better in WeeWX and WVIEW take reads of battery and supercap voltages and logging it)

need wait a few months for test and sure repair but by the moment station are two weeks of fine work.

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« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 02:14:17 PM by EA1EF »

Offline jake2015

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #332 on: February 08, 2015, 08:09:43 PM »
I own a Davis Vantage Vue 6250 and what I did for the supcap issue...  Of course, totally out of warranty...

Took the unit apart, used a dremel tool to cut the housing in half where the transmitter (easily found because of the antenna) and supcap are located.  The reason I used a dremel tool was to get the jelled circuit board out of the housing.  The circuit board is completely encased in a hard rubber type jell inside the housing.  Once I carefully cut the jell from the supercap (see EA1EF pic posted on December 07, 2014); then I cut both leads and completely removed the capacitor.  Now the Vantage Vue charging unit can charge the rechargeable CR123 battery I purchased on Amazon.  This was not only a permanent fix but should last for many years to come.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FWOJLGI/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Definitely was much cheaper to do this than purchase a new unit or a refurb from Davis.

Offline JohnDoe1983

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #333 on: February 09, 2015, 11:58:25 AM »
Jake2015

May I ask you a question.

Why did you buy a 3,7 volt battery?

In my book it says: Battery (ISS SIM).......CR123 3-Volt Lithium cell

Is there a problem using a 3.7volt ?

Thanks
John
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Offline jake2015

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #334 on: February 10, 2015, 12:30:39 AM »
Thank you for bringing this to my attention.  I assumed all the Li-Ion RCR123A had the protective circuit in them but as you pointed out, these do not.  I have removed it and ordered the Tenergy RCR123A 3.0V 750mAh LiFePO4 Rechargeable Battery from Amazon.  Had not have an issue "yet" with the other battery but being an Amazon Prime member, returned them.

I did find how the charging, discharging works with these batteries I ordered tonight:
 
•Rechargeable LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0V 750mAhBattery
•Life cycle: 1000 times (Traditional Li-ion: 500 times)
•Will never explode or catch fire
•Working Voltage:3.2V and Peak Voltage: 3.6V
•Charging cut-off voltage: 3.6V
•Discharge cut-off voltage: 2.2V
•Capacity: 750 mAh

Thank you again for pointing this out!!!  Jake

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #335 on: February 10, 2015, 10:14:30 AM »
There are many different brands of non-rechargeable and rechargeable "123" batteries.  They have different chemistry and different voltages. 

Most of them are labeled 3V.  But if you look closely at the manufacturers' specifications, that's not exactly correct.

As far as I know, a slightly-higher voltage won't harm the ISS. 

Offline JohnDoe1983

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #336 on: February 10, 2015, 01:21:24 PM »
Here what I found.

2 different mAh if it is LI or Li-ion

The basic 3.0 volt are a lot cheaper and easy to get in electronic store. I tried the 3.7 yesterday with no luck.

I will stick to what Davis suggest.

Do you think it will be a good idea to put some dielectric grease on the contact ? I do that to all my connections on my 4 wheelers, trailers and everything subjected to the outside.
John
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #337 on: February 10, 2015, 01:31:03 PM »
What you found was simplistic.  The real situation is far more complex - and not too important for this discussion.

Of course, Davis does not "suggest" rechargeable "123" batteries.  And, depending on your location (amount of sunlight on cloudy winter days, etc.), that might or might not compensate for a cut-off supercap.

There are lots of "hacks" for this situation.  YMMV.

Using dielectric grease won't hurt, of course.


Offline ak72

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #338 on: February 16, 2015, 11:29:54 AM »
I bought my Vantage Vue feb 2012 and on Jan 2015 console started showing "transmitter battery low" Here in Finland there could be like 2-3 months without sun shining so backup battery is mostly used in winter. I replaced battery and  still console showed low battery, I had to wait  till next day to clear that message and now it's gone. I used multimeter to measure used battery voltage and it was 2.084 volts. Hopefully I have troublefree time with my Vantage Vue years to come  ;)

Offline EA1EF

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #339 on: March 04, 2015, 05:38:28 PM »
have any NEWS about this problem

after replace the supercap discover that problem will continue, battery drain too and data only become when solar power are active.

I test to connect four alcaline batteries, two serial two parallel and gives about 3,8v, as Vue have many space behide the plastic body it´s easy accomodate bigger batteries.

Surprise when see that now, after two days good function, when solar power left became wrong data values, when no battery no became data values and when battery became wrong data values

only when solar powered became good data values...

any idea? put alcaline batteries 3,5v directly to supercap,  connect batteries to solar imput?


Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #340 on: March 04, 2015, 09:25:54 PM »
recent i buy a Davis Vantage VUE (USA version) with the battery problem....

the propietary report that only on sunny conditions work the ISS and baterry goes down on few days...

You replaced the supercapacitor, and the problems (including rapid battery discharge) remain.

So, the problem was not the supercapacitor.  It's somewhere else in the (fairly simple) power circuitry.  Probably just something like a shorted diode or ???

Unless you want to carefully remove all of the potting, without damaging anything else, you can't find the problem. 

But of course, you understood that risk before you purchased it.

Offline miraculon

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #341 on: March 05, 2015, 09:25:59 AM »
I bought my Vantage Vue feb 2012 and on Jan 2015 console started showing "transmitter battery low" Here in Finland there could be like 2-3 months without sun shining so backup battery is mostly used in winter. I replaced battery and  still console showed low battery, I had to wait  till next day to clear that message and now it's gone. I used multimeter to measure used battery voltage and it was 2.084 volts. Hopefully I have troublefree time with my Vantage Vue years to come  ;)

This sounds like normal behavior, you got about two years out of the battery. That includes 4-6 months just on the battery total during the two years of operation. I have a temperature/humidity station that I used as it originally came without the solar panel door. I had to to replace the battery after 6 months over the winter here in Michigan, USA.

I changed the door to a solar panel one, and I have not needed to replace the battery yet.

The low battery status clears at midnight on the console, so that behavior is normal.

On the battery life, I am making the assumption that the VUE ISS circuit is similar to the VP2 SIM. With the wind (and rain) measurement, the VUE ISS transmitter might be busier than my temp/hum station, draining the battery faster during your "no sun" months.

Greg H.


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Offline arrowspace90

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #342 on: April 23, 2015, 12:07:28 PM »
I have read about these battery/supercap problems for a long time here.

My original battery worked great for over 2 years.  Some months ago I finally got the "low battery transmitter" warning flashing on the console.
I replaced the battery.
Last week, only about 6 months after replacing the battery, I had the "low battery transmitter" warning again.
Well, I figured it must be the supercap.
So I did what I had always planned to do.  I ordered a Vantage Pro 2 from Davis with the aspirated fan. It will arrive today.  Obviously not a cheap or fun, DIY alternative.  I didn't want to lose weather data for weeks while I sent the Vue to Davis.

I arrived back from a 4 day trip last night.  The low battery transmitter warning is no longer showing on the console.  Hmmm.
My station has to be mounted high on a 2nd floor pitched roof, so it's way better for me if it runs without attention.
I guess I will just bank the new station until I start getting the problem again.  When the new station goes in, I will send the Vue to Davis for refurbishment.  Then I don't know what I will do with it. 

Do folks have similar power problems with the VP 2?  It has 3 batteries to run the fan.  Perhaps I should consider A/C power to it?

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #343 on: April 23, 2015, 01:57:28 PM »
Well, I never have "low transmitter battery" problems with my cabled VP2, and the fan runs 24/7 with AC power, and the rain bucket heater runs all winter. 

Offline CW2274

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #344 on: April 23, 2015, 02:30:15 PM »
I have read about these battery/supercap problems for a long time here.

My original battery worked great for over 2 years.  Some months ago I finally got the "low battery transmitter" warning flashing on the console.
I replaced the battery.
Last week, only about 6 months after replacing the battery, I had the "low battery transmitter" warning again.
Well, I figured it must be the supercap.
So I did what I had always planned to do.  I ordered a Vantage Pro 2 from Davis with the aspirated fan. It will arrive today.  Obviously not a cheap or fun, DIY alternative.  I didn't want to lose weather data for weeks while I sent the Vue to Davis.

I arrived back from a 4 day trip last night.  The low battery transmitter warning is no longer showing on the console.  Hmmm.
My station has to be mounted high on a 2nd floor pitched roof, so it's way better for me if it runs without attention.
I guess I will just bank the new station until I start getting the problem again.  When the new station goes in, I will send the Vue to Davis for refurbishment.  Then I don't know what I will do with it. 

Do folks have similar power problems with the VP 2?  It has 3 batteries to run the fan.  Perhaps I should consider A/C power to it?
Frankly, I'd keep the VP2 ISS and use the Vue console. BTW it uses 2 batteries to run the fan should you choose to. I personally use one.

Offline arrowspace90

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #345 on: April 23, 2015, 03:18:55 PM »
I have read about these battery/supercap problems for a long time here.

My original battery worked great for over 2 years.  Some months ago I finally got the "low battery transmitter" warning flashing on the console.
I replaced the battery.
Last week, only about 6 months after replacing the battery, I had the "low battery transmitter" warning again.
Well, I figured it must be the supercap.
So I did what I had always planned to do.  I ordered a Vantage Pro 2 from Davis with the aspirated fan. It will arrive today.  Obviously not a cheap or fun, DIY alternative.  I didn't want to lose weather data for weeks while I sent the Vue to Davis.

I arrived back from a 4 day trip last night.  The low battery transmitter warning is no longer showing on the console.  Hmmm.
My station has to be mounted high on a 2nd floor pitched roof, so it's way better for me if it runs without attention.
I guess I will just bank the new station until I start getting the problem again.  When the new station goes in, I will send the Vue to Davis for refurbishment.  Then I don't know what I will do with it. 

Do folks have similar power problems with the VP 2?  It has 3 batteries to run the fan.  Perhaps I should consider A/C power to it?
Frankly, I'd keep the VP2 ISS and use the Vue console. BTW it uses 2 batteries to run the fan should you choose to. I personally use one.

Yes, why not just use the Vue console?  It works fine and is already hooked up to the computer.  If the new VP 2 transmits exactly the same way, I will certainly do that.
Still no "low battery transmitter" message.  Why would it appear for 2 days and then go away?

Offline arrowspace90

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #346 on: April 23, 2015, 03:23:13 PM »
Well, I never have "low transmitter battery" problems with my cabled VP2, and the fan runs 24/7 with AC power, and the rain bucket heater runs all winter.

Is your cabled VP 2 easy to run power to?  Did you have to install a special line to it?
Mine will be on the roof.  No power up there. 
I did lose some data this past winter on frozen precip. 

Offline CW2274

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #347 on: April 23, 2015, 03:29:43 PM »
I have read about these battery/supercap problems for a long time here.

My original battery worked great for over 2 years.  Some months ago I finally got the "low battery transmitter" warning flashing on the console.
I replaced the battery.
Last week, only about 6 months after replacing the battery, I had the "low battery transmitter" warning again.
Well, I figured it must be the supercap.
So I did what I had always planned to do.  I ordered a Vantage Pro 2 from Davis with the aspirated fan. It will arrive today.  Obviously not a cheap or fun, DIY alternative.  I didn't want to lose weather data for weeks while I sent the Vue to Davis.

I arrived back from a 4 day trip last night.  The low battery transmitter warning is no longer showing on the console.  Hmmm.
My station has to be mounted high on a 2nd floor pitched roof, so it's way better for me if it runs without attention.
I guess I will just bank the new station until I start getting the problem again.  When the new station goes in, I will send the Vue to Davis for refurbishment.  Then I don't know what I will do with it. 

Do folks have similar power problems with the VP 2?  It has 3 batteries to run the fan.  Perhaps I should consider A/C power to it?
Frankly, I'd keep the VP2 ISS and use the Vue console. BTW it uses 2 batteries to run the fan should you choose to. I personally use one.

Yes, why not just use the Vue console?  It works fine and is already hooked up to the computer.  If the new VP 2 transmits exactly the same way, I will certainly do that.
Still no "low battery transmitter" message.  Why would it appear for 2 days and then go away?
They are completely compatible (I believe, others will chime in) and you get the best of both worlds, the 24 hr. FARS and the greater flexibility of the newer Vue console. As far as the battery, perhaps it's now charged properly?

Offline arrowspace90

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #348 on: April 23, 2015, 03:46:27 PM »
I have read about these battery/supercap problems for a long time here.

My original battery worked great for over 2 years.  Some months ago I finally got the "low battery transmitter" warning flashing on the console.
I replaced the battery.
Last week, only about 6 months after replacing the battery, I had the "low battery transmitter" warning again.
Well, I figured it must be the supercap.
So I did what I had always planned to do.  I ordered a Vantage Pro 2 from Davis with the aspirated fan. It will arrive today.  Obviously not a cheap or fun, DIY alternative.  I didn't want to lose weather data for weeks while I sent the Vue to Davis.

I arrived back from a 4 day trip last night.  The low battery transmitter warning is no longer showing on the console.  Hmmm.
My station has to be mounted high on a 2nd floor pitched roof, so it's way better for me if it runs without attention.
I guess I will just bank the new station until I start getting the problem again.  When the new station goes in, I will send the Vue to Davis for refurbishment.  Then I don't know what I will do with it. 

Do folks have similar power problems with the VP 2?  It has 3 batteries to run the fan.  Perhaps I should consider A/C power to it?
Frankly, I'd keep the VP2 ISS and use the Vue console. BTW it uses 2 batteries to run the fan should you choose to. I personally use one.

I wish Ambient sold the VP 2 with the option of no console.  It comes with the package but I don't need it and could have paid less if I could opt out of it.
Yes, why not just use the Vue console?  It works fine and is already hooked up to the computer.  If the new VP 2 transmits exactly the same way, I will certainly do that.
Still no "low battery transmitter" message.  Why would it appear for 2 days and then go away?
They are completely compatible (I believe, others will chime in) and you get the best of both worlds, the 24 hr. FARS and the greater flexibility of the newer Vue console. As far as the battery, perhaps it's now charged properly?

Offline CW2274

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #349 on: April 23, 2015, 03:57:30 PM »
No reply above.