Author Topic: NOOB in Search of Answers (Read 11007 times)

prvrt · « **on:** February 24, 2008, 01:14:15 AM »

I have been watching this forum for a while and I decided it is time to get a weather station up and running. This has been something I have wanted to do for years, just never got around to it, to many other hobbies(Motorcycles, Hunting, Camping, Fishing, HAM<WL7COQ>, PC's) and building a new house. I live in a high desert and the weather here is very different even from the nearest town only 10 miles away. So far I have selected Davis, which seems to be a no brainer. I prefer wireless since I hate wires. I do want the Pro II Plus since I have Lupus and the sun and I do not get along real well. I do want a camera, preferably a PTZ Sony or Cannon used for security also. A website will also be needed for this. I have 2 new Q6600 pc's I just built, one is a gaming system, other is a HTPC/server for my home. Not sure I can set up a webserver or not due to my ISP, need to do some research. They do have an FTP site. I also like the Haute spot so the system is not depending on the pc, and I all ready have 3 pc's and a network printer wired to my router with 2 other pc's that are wireless. Here is what I am looking at so far. http://www.ambientweather.com/dain61wiplwi.html I know I will need the rain guage heater since temps drop as low as -40f here. Now time for the questions.

1. What is the difference between the Davis 6152 and the 6163? Which is better?
2. Software. Is the Weather Exchange all I need? Will it do what I need for a personel website? Camera?
3. Which Camera will work best? I have narrowed it down to a Sony SNC-RZ30N or Cannon VB-C50iR. Seems the Cannon has a better quality pic and night vision, but the Sony seems more flexible for pic manipulation to other places and ease of setup. This will be a weather cam/security cam all in one. I have looked at k6dyc's Cannon web camera, very nice.
4. What is the ideal height for the anemometer? I can build a tower with little problem, tallest trees I have are about 30' atm. Also property is 5 acres. This tower will also have the PTZ camera. I do know from some research into a windmill that the higher you go the higher the wind, but to low and turbulence becomes a problem.
5. Anything else that I will need or missing?

Edit: Thought I posted this in "What Weather Station Should I Buy", but I guess the late nights and age are catching up to me.

saratogaWX · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2008, 12:04:25 PM »

Hi and welcome to WXForum.net!

For the Davis VP2 Plus stations with UV and Solar, the 6163 has a 24-hr Fan Aspirated Radiation Shield (FARS) for the temperature/humidity sensors, while the 6162 has the standard passive radiation shield. The FARS can yield more accurate temperature readings in direct sun than the standard shield due to it's intake of ambient air by the solar-powered fan. It will be somewhat faster to react to changes too. The 6152 is the VP2 without UV/Solar and a standard radiation shield. If you want UV and Solar, it's better (and cheaper) to get them built in with your initial purchase than to add them on later. If your wallet can stand it, the 6163 (top of the line) is the way to go.

For weather software, you'll need to order the 6510SER (WeatherLink+datalogger serial format) with your system. Even if you don't end up using WeatherLink, you need the datalogger to connect the VP console to your PC. Think of it as buying the datalogger that just happens to have some weather software with it.. the datalogger is essential, WeatherLink is not.

Check out the Reviews section on this forum for a great set of writeups about the popular weather software, then you can pick the one that seems most comfortable for you. Many of us use VirtualVP so we can run more than one weather station software and choose the features from each package we like.
I run WeatherLink, Weather-Display and VWS concurrently using VirtualVP.

For siting your sensors, the best guide is the CWOP station siting guide -- 32' is the 'best' elevation for the anemometer and wind-vane. 5' for the temperature/humidity sensor and <3' for the rain gauge. With the Davis ISS, locating it at 5' and a clear 'rain view' at 30 degrees elevation all around provides the best results.

For your website, I'd recommend you get a subscription to a real hosting company that offers PHP scripting too. There are multiple choices ranging from 10$/year to $10/month. A lot of our members use e-rice and icdsoft for hosting. I'm using 1and1 (Business Linux). You can even start small and try your website wings with the free hosting account that usually comes with your DSL/Cable internet provider -- you won't be able to run PHP on it, but a multi-page website design is very feasible using HTML and JavaScript only. If you pick a hoster with PHP, there are a LOT of free PHP scripts available to enhance your weather website.

I'll let others (with better knowledge) talk about the cameras.

Hope this helps,
Best regards,
Ken

prvrt · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2008, 01:41:47 PM »

OK, that helps alot. I will stick with the 6163 Pro2+. Might as well start with the best and get everything at the beginning instead of adding on later. FARS I think will help alot as temps can hit 115f and when it gets that hot, there is usally no wind. The 6510SER comes with the system I am looking at. Only problem is none of my 5 PC's have a serial connector now so I would have to buy a serial card. Wish the USB worked better. I am thinking tho since I am getting the Haute Spot WIFI that the 6510SER connects to the Haute Spot with the serial connection and then the Haute Spot connects to my LAN wireless or with a RJ45. So, there would be no need for a serial connection to the pc, I would pull the info from the LAN. Sound right? Now I am trying to find the best location for my sensors. I have over 100 trees planted on my place to stop the wind and give me some shade. Finding a place with all day sun for the solar, but slows the wind down for the rain guage to work correctly is a challenge. Does water affect the temp readings? I have a 15,000 gallon Koi pond (another hobby) in the back yard with only a few short evergreen trees around it and gravel/boulders. Then there is the anemometer. Building a 33' tower is no problem, but the guy wires are a pain. It has to be solid tho since a camera will be on the same pole and it has to be centered near the house for the security aspect. I will have to do some more looking into this and may have to go wireless with the anemometer also. I think the website will be last on the list of things todo. Maybe next winters project right after the camera is installed in the fall. I will have to check with my ISP and see what they offer. My ISP is wireless and I am not sure if they block ports or not. I may be able to set up my website on my server. Here is a pic of my backyard 2 years ago. Trees are 4-8' taller now.

And here is a pic today. As you can see, snow will be a problem in the winter. It is around 4' deep now, and this is just an average snow year. The clothes line pole is 6'6" tall and the green house is 8' to the roof for reference.

George Richardson · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2008, 05:38:24 PM »

Would someone please expand on the use of the Haute Spot WIFI. I just don't understand the concept. If you're getting your data onto your LAN for use on your computer, why not buy a $25 PCI to Serial card? On the subject of PTZ cams, the Toshiba IK-WB21A racenet uses is really sweet too. You just said what you'd narrowed to, not what you've eliminated.

FWIW

George

prvrt · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2008, 07:33:54 PM »

The Haute Spot eliminates the need for a PC. It works like the IP cameras, no pc needed. I will not need a PC dedicated to the weather station or keep it on 24/7. It sends info continuously to the net as long as your internet is working. I can then access the weather station from ANY pc anywhere in the world. The reason I am looking at this is I go camping for sometimes up to 2 weeks or more in the summer and usually turn everything off while gone. With the Haute Spot and a IP camera, I can leave them running along with the router and still have access to the weather info and camera from my cell phone or Laptop. I also do not need to worry about wires since it works through my wireless router. I can have the router anywhere I want and not worry about the Haute Spot being moved or wires being rerouted. I just like the versatility and hate wires. Also, down the road in a few years I plan on building another house off grid, so something like the Haute spot only taking 10 watts will be a big plus rather than having a pc that takes 100+ watts. The real reason I believe the Haute Spot was made was for remote applications where no pc is present, but there was either internet access or WIFI.

I have looked at the Toshiba's, but on most I have noticed the auto focus is very slow and night vision is way to bright if any lights are present. They do work well in total darkness, but seem a little to grainy for me. Also when zooming in on far away objects, Toshiba's have a problem with auto focusing correctly. I have looked at the Toshiba IK-WB21A and IK-WB15A.

George Richardson · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2008, 09:49:03 PM »

See - You ask and you learn!

Thanks,

George

Anthony · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2008, 08:40:19 AM »

You won't go wrong with the Davis. Based on what I read. Hope to have one my self this year. As for the height of the anemometer. Recommended height is 35' and recommended height of the temp sensor is 6' above the ground. Recommend you place it over a grassy area if possible. As for an aspirated shield. You can probably get by with the day time FARS. Unless you live in an area with little or no wind. Then you may need the 24 hour FARS. Before you buy. I would recommend you check www.ambientweather.com They seem to have the best prices that I've found.

Oh, welcome to the forum.

casa manana · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:13:04 PM »

Saw your comment about needing to get a serial card so that you can avoid the usb hassles. My advice, do it.

tweatherman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2008, 06:25:34 PM »

I'll second that about running software via serial port vs. usb.

Tim

prvrt · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2008, 08:28:42 PM »

Anthony: Thanks, and I plan on ordering this http://www.ambientweather.com/dain61wiplwi.html.

tweatherman & casa manana: I will be ordering the serial data logger, but I will not need the serial card since I will be using the Haute Spot.

Still looking for information on the Sony cameras versus the Cannon. Main concern is ease of retrieving pics/setup, auto upload to website, security features.
Also would like some user input if anyone has the Haute Spot. Likes/Dislikes
Should be picking up a Logitech Pro 9000 webcam this week for temporary use.

up10ad N9RJH · « **Reply #10 on:** February 26, 2008, 07:41:29 AM »

I can't help with a comparison of the Canon to the Sony, but I can tell you the Canon is a great chunk of hardware. My only complaint with it is that it is almost worthless at night. The PTZ interface works great, it has good access to its feature set and is bulletproof. Mine is inside the dome enclosure.

The Toshiba family (I have the older WB11a) is slow to focus, slow to PTZ and the browser interface is pokey as well. Its biggest asset is the low-light capability. I used to live in Meeker, CO and was away from city lights and it worked great at night.

Hope these comments help.

Anthony · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26, 2008, 08:51:14 AM »

Sounds like a great station and you are still able to get you data on the internet without a computer. Hope you enjoy your new hobby.

A web cam is something else that is on my wish list.

George Richardson · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2008, 09:26:10 AM »

Let me comment on the Logitech Pro 9000 webcam. I just got my rebate yesterday so I can say, its a good $50 webcam. This forum had a praising thread on the camera a while back when Staples had it on sale with a rebate. I have a lot of Logitech accessories that are quite good so I went for it. I hooked the camera up in NOT bright sunshine conditions and it would not focus. Now, all of these cameras are soft on the edges but this was very soft all over. I called customer support and their answer was that the camera wasn't designed for that application (weather webcam). I went off. I ranted that my Kodak Brownie box camera would focus at infinity 60 years ago and it just went over their heads. Of course I could take it back but that isn't what I wanted; I wanted them to fix it like everyone else's. The next day was bright and sunny and the picture was still fuzzy but then, the picture literally popped into focus and has been fine since. Today, the weather is quite cloudy and the picture is soft; by this time on a bright day the picture would have become sharp. Another thing against these cameras is they are mounted inside and in my case, shooting through 2 panes of glass at an angle which magnifies distortion. All in all, the camera's performance is quite acceptable if not quite what I had (unrealistically) hoped for. See: http://www.smlweather.com/campage.htm

FWIW

George

casa manana · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26, 2008, 10:14:46 AM »

Where can I get more info on the Haute Spot WIFI?

thanks.

ncpilot · « **Reply #14 on:** February 26, 2008, 11:33:23 AM »

http://www.hautespot.net/

NoQuitters · « **Reply #15 on:** February 26, 2008, 12:44:28 PM »

Quote

All in all, the camera's performance is quite acceptable if not quite what I had (unrealistically) hoped for

What software are you using for the camera? I have 2 of them and use 2 different aplications. Both have low light boost and image filcker adjustment built in. The other bonus is that they are both free.

DORGEM and FreeWCAM

ncpilot · « **Reply #16 on:** February 26, 2008, 01:36:45 PM »

I don't see how either of those programs actually stream "live" video... are their descriptions incomplete on their main web pages? They are only designed to upload single images?

George Richardson · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2008, 02:55:24 PM »

I'm using Image Salsa but I really think the problem is that the optimum focus for the 9000 is about 4 feet and to get to infinity the camera has to move to the end of its focus rather than having infinity as optimum as most point and shoot cameras do. It also could be that my unit is slightly out of spec which all mass produced product are subject to. I just wanted to advise prvrt that at least my 9000 was not perfect because his description of the PTZs, while not unfair, was exacting.

roakey · « **Reply #18 on:** February 26, 2008, 02:59:38 PM »

Quote from: George Richardson on February 26, 2008, 09:26:10 AM

The next day was bright and sunny and the picture was still fuzzy but then, the picture literally popped into focus and has been fine since. Today, the weather is quite cloudy and the picture is soft; by this time on a bright day the picture would have become sharp.

I bought a 9000 in that Staples flurry as well -- in the toolbox menu you can turn off autofocus and just manually fix the focus at infinity, or at least as close to it as it'll get. I find that I have problems with infinity with it as well.

Roak

ncpilot · « **Reply #19 on:** February 26, 2008, 03:28:55 PM »

In low light, typical incandescent in a room, my 9000 also has trouble focusing... but eventually it seems to...

Still waiting for my Staples check to arrive...

Still trying to find a program that will stream it...

WebcamXP kept stopping after about 20 seconds. Thought I'd try WME (Windows Media Encoder), but can't seem to get that to work in pull mode, plus it would be limited to displaying only in WMP.

I have ways to generate jpegs, so next I'll try Dr. Tim West's flash applet...

George Richardson · « **Reply #20 on:** February 26, 2008, 05:21:50 PM »

Marc,
Using Image Salsa, Dr. Tim West's applet, And a LOT of help from Kray1000 and racenet, my picture seems to stream OK.

Roak,
Thanks for the information on turning off autofocus. I'll try that and it should work because the camera can reach an acceptable focus point, it just doesn't unless the sun is bright.

Thanks again,

George

ncpilot · « **Reply #21 on:** February 26, 2008, 08:02:18 PM »

Not really the spot for this post, but since we're talking about the 9000 webcam. I was just playing with it using a program called iCatcher Sentry. The image was very dark, and it wouldn't focus. Then I opened up the Logitech Quickcam program, and immediately the image improved and the camera focused...

I closed Quickcam (even if you click the x, it will only minimize to the toolbar, you have to right click and exit) and the image went back to being real bad...

Not sure what's going on... camera settings don't stick with the cam, and Quickcam has to be open for it to work properly???

Interesting...

Jiles111 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 26, 2008, 08:09:07 PM »

Quote from: ncpilot on February 26, 2008, 03:28:55 PM

In low light, typical incandescent in a room, my 9000 also has trouble focusing... but eventually it seems to...

Still waiting for my Staples check to arrive...

Still trying to find a program that will stream it...

WebcamXP kept stopping after about 20 seconds. Thought I'd try WME (Windows Media Encoder), but can't seem to get that to work in pull mode, plus it would be limited to displaying only in WMP.

I have ways to generate jpegs, so next I'll try Dr. Tim West's flash applet...

Are you sure it stopped? My WebcamXP stops refreshing the preview screen after a bit. If I connect to its web interface the cam is still active.

Shane

ncpilot · « **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2008, 08:35:58 PM »

The image would freeze on a second computer I was using to monitor the feed... it was very consistent...

Well... now that I think about it, the image stopped in the browser, and if I recall correctly, it was also frozen in WebcamXP--it just would never work past the 20 second or so point... I just gave up...

The darkwet forum isn't too active, and someone posted with my exact problem--no answers.

Anyway, my trial expired, and I couldn't find a way to reactivate another trial...

I've got at least one server I can run for the cam, so there are other ways to broadcast it...

prvrt · « **Reply #24 on:** February 26, 2008, 09:14:04 PM »

Thanks for all the information. Starting to wonder about the 9000. I have a Logitech Quickcam Communicate at the moment, but it only works with XP, not Vista. Also it has no night vision what so ever to it and the picture is not real good. I can understand the problem with the 9000 and not really made for infinity focus. I think I will skip the 9000 and go for the Panasonic http://www.123securityproducts.com/panablc131a.html. I was thinking this is my next best option above the 9000. I could use it for a weather cam for now, and later on I can use it for a security cam in my shop or home. I think this is about as cheap as you can get and still have PTZ and wireless IP. It is also available localy from many stores which will be nice for warranty if needed and no shipping.

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Author Topic: NOOB in Search of Answers (Read 11007 times)